Pay Respect; It's Time | Barking Hard

Pay Respect; It's Time

twizbuck

You fucked it up. Again.
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Pay Respect

The Hoyer era is over in Cleveland. This is a hometown kid who led this underachieving franchise to a 7-5 record this year, and has been instrumental in helping chance the tone of this franchise. Teams actually look at Cleveland as a respectable opponent in just a third of a season. That really says something, and Hoyer was key in that.

Whether you like him or not, you have to respect Brian Hoyer. He was the QB this franchise needed the most, after failure time and time again struck the QB position. He gave us a sense of stability and, dare I say, hope. I hope he finds another chance to start in the NFL with someone else after this season, while his physical tools aren't the most impressive, his intangibles are. Leading the Browns to wins over Cincy and Pittsburgh, comeback wins, never giving up, no quit, he's been a breath of fresh air.

I know he's struggled the last few games, and that's why his time is done here. There's a QB waiting in the wings that this organization drafted to eventually be the guy, and Hoyer had to fight as a guy that was carried over. But even then he played well enough early to earn the favor of the coaches.

Pay respects to the man that's the catalyst of the bridge from the horror years of the Browns, to the glory years. All the calls to replace him Day 1, all the unwarranted hate and passive-aggressive posts, the media pressure, Hoyer fought it off. I'm still amazed how some Browns fans flat out hate him, even though this is the best this team has looked since their return, and Hoyer is part of that.

I really feel like fans not happy with 7-5 just don't understand how bad this franchise has been, and are part of the new wave with Manziel. This was never the year to expect great things. Hell, most experts, no matter who was at QB, thought Cleveland was no better than 4-12. Well, they were proven wrong, and you can thank Hoyer for a lot of the success.

Thank you, Brian Hoyer. I'll always be a fan.



Now, all that said...



It's Time


The Manziel era has begun, and we need to let it roll. I've said all season, once Hoyer is replaced, that's it. You keep going with Manziel. I stand by that. It's time to find out just what he can do.

I am one of his detractors: I didn't like him in the draft, and I'll need a good amount of convincing on the field to believe he's the real deal. I don't like his size, his play style, and I don't like how he conducts himself off the field. But this isn't Michael Vick, this is a kid who still needs to grow up. I think he's a tool, but that doesn't mean I hate him and will refuse to support the Browns, just means I wouldn't look up to him as a role model. Nor would I want my (imaginary) kids or the youngin's in my vast family to.

Now the physical gifts are certainly there as far as arm strength and mobility, but he can't be a running/mobile QB. He needs to pick and choose his spots. If he molds himself to play the way guys like Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers and, to a lesser extent due to size, Ben Roethlisberger, then he'll do well. Scramble when it's your last resort. Use your legs behind the LOS and keep your eyes down field.

I really worry about how Shanny will use him. No QB should be left open to take shots. When Manziel scrambles he really needs to slide. Sure, there might be ONE play a game where taking a hit on the run is warranted, if it's the difference between a TD or first down late in the game, but that's it. Otherwise, Manziel needs to be protected. However, Shanny's going to use QB runs and read options. We've seen time and time again how awful those are for QB's in the NFL.

No designed runs for Manziel. Let him use his legs in combination with his arm. QB's are going to get hit often enough as it is. Shouldn't add to that hit total.

Also, you can't just throw the ball up in the NFL, like Manizel did with Evans in college. That would bail him out quite often, and we saw a glimpse of this when he threw to Gordon in the first drive. This goes back to reading a defense. Be smart. Just throwing the ball up results in L's.

As long as the kid wins, I'll be happy. At the end of the day, I'm a Browns fan. A guy I think is a tool playing QB isn't going to make me quit being a fan. By 2017, we'll know if this was just a flash-in-the-pan Tebow era, or a wild, crazy, yet successful Favre era. Those are the two QB's that keep coming up in my mind with Manziel. Is he going to be stubborn and refuse to adjust himself like Tebow, who couldn't understand the fundamentals and basics, which is where that comparison is valid, or will he be a real gunslinger like Favre, who drove fans and coaches absolutely insane, but did win a Super Bowl. He's already past the Atlanta phase Favre went through at least, but I see so many similarities in too many ways.

Regardless, as I said before, if he wins on the field, awesome. Go Browns. I just won't buy his jersey. Which I'm sure will keep him up at night.





Just pay respect to Hoyer for getting us here, and hope Manziel turns into the QB Manzealots think he is. Go Cleveland, Go Browns.
 
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Cool enough, Twiz.

I've been with Sobo all along: Wherever Shanny went as OC was the best landing spot for Manziel, and it happened. Manziel has apparently been looking excellent in practice for several weeks.

I've said several times Manziel will end up the #1 QB from this draft (as Mayock) said and I'm very muchs standing by that. He and Shanahan should have some fun, given some time to actually work together.
 
Cool enough, Twiz.

I've been with Sobo all along: Wherever Shanny went as OC was the best landing spot for Manziel, and it happened. Manziel has apparently been looking excellent in practice for several weeks.

I've said several times Manziel will end up the #1 QB from this draft (as Mayock) said and I'm very muchs standing by that. He and Shanahan should have some fun, given some time to actually work together.

I really hope that's the great fit everyone says it is. I just don't want Shanny leaving Manziel out to dry. There's been a lot made of the hits Manziel took in college, and he'd bounce back up. But even then the hits weren't a good thing, and especially in the NFL where every player is much bigger, faster and stronger. Gotta keep Manziel safe, like any QB.

For the record, my guy was Jimmy Garoppolo. It'll be awhile before we see how he turns out lol.
 
BTW, I do respect Hoyer. And I actually feel bad for him. He got his big opportunity and here are the realities:

- Ranked 27th in passer rating at 79.
- Ranked 33rd in completion% at 55.
- Had 11 TDs in 12 starts, on par for 15 if he'd started all 16 games... and that's crazy low.

When the dust clears and everybody takes a deep breath, that's Brian Hoyer. It isn't an accident that he made it to 29 before he got a shot at being a starter. Browns fans have understandably seen such absolute dreck at QB that the above numbers became acceptable. They aren't. It makes the Browns record something of a miracle based on precedent.

It doesn't guarantee anything about Manziel. It tells you that Brian Hoyer isn't an NFL starting QB. He simply isn't good enough. Over the next 20 games or so, we'll find out about Manziel. No, Tony Grossi, the Browns won't make their decision on his long-term future after 4 starts (!). Grossi's a nutball..
 
BTW, I do respect Hoyer. And I actually feel bad for him. He got his big opportunity and here are the realities:

- Ranked 27th in passer rating at 79.
- Ranked 33rd in completion% at 55.
- Had 11 TDs in 12 starts, on par for 15 if he'd started all 16 games... and that's crazy low.

When the dust clears and everybody takes a deep breath, that's Brian Hoyer. It isn't an accident that he made it to 29 before he got a shot at being a starter. Browns fans have understandably seen such absolute dreck at QB that the above numbers became acceptable. They aren't. It makes the Browns record something of a miracle based on precedent.

It doesn't guarantee anything about Manziel. It tells you that Brian Hoyer isn't an NFL starting QB. He simply isn't good enough. Over the next 20 games or so, we'll find out about Manziel. No, Tony Grossi, the Browns won't make their decision on his long-term future after 4 starts (!). Grossi's a nutball..

I'd actually say 36 starts. He'll get a full three years with the team before judgement is passed. At least I hope so.

I know Hoyer ended up at the bottom, don't have to keep flaunting it. banghead Lol. But he really did get this team going in the right direction, and for a franchise that's been dead in the water for years and years, that means a lot. I don't expect him back next year, either. Do hope another team brings him in for a shot.
 
Agreed on almost all fronts: Hoyer gave us a good September, a mediocre October, and then an epically bad November (check his splits at ESPN.com). But he played a role in getting us where we are now.

I think the chances of Hoyer being in Cleveland next year are now at zero. He probably isn't the right backup and "buddy" for Manziel, something every young quarterback loves to have around (Kosar loved having Danielson, who played his role to a tee).

I'd be looking at veterans with mobility and intelligence, which is why I keep thinking Christian Ponder makes a ton of sense. I'd take Chase Daniel if KC's ready to promote Tyler Bray.
 
Hoyer had his chance, and many more chances, for a guy with his background. Especially with the team having drafted "THEIR" guy and waiting in the wings. Hoyer picked THE most inopportune time to turn into an interception vending machine. This is ALL ON HIM. Taking the chance on Manziel was absolutely the right call.
 
I am baffled by talking heads saying the Manziel could not be on this team next year. From Triv, the idiot on ESPN radio (cant think of his name right now) and a few others. How in the hell can they think the Brown's would trade a first round pick after year 1 that he didn't play very much of? It makes zero sense that it would even be a possibility.
 
I am baffled by talking heads saying the Manziel could not be on this team next year. From Triv, the idiot on ESPN radio (cant think of his name right now) and a few others. How in the hell can they think the Brown's would trade a first round pick after year 1 that he didn't play very much of? It makes zero sense that it would even be a possibility.
These national guys see Hoyer's 10-5 record (even though it is 9-5) and they assume that HE ALONE has won those games...when in fact WE as Browns fans have watched the games and saw how dependant he has been over the last 7 games.

Notice most of the local guys (and MKC) are finally admitting that the change is right. They have seen the games and now have to review what happened...instead of being the Browns PR team.
 
Cool enough, Twiz.
I've said several times Manziel will end up the #1 QB from this draft (as Mayock) said and I'm very muchs standing by that. He and Shanahan should have some fun, given some time to actually work together.

Ok Shep - I'm QFF so we can look back and laugh or say 'how prescient!'

I agree with Twizbuck - I don't care for him personally or as a QB, but boy do I hope I am wrong - at least about the QB part.

As he matures, he'll mature and (I hope) outgrow the toolishness. but he is still young so we might have to put up with a few years of it.

Hey, as long as he isn't committing crimes and under threat of suspension, it doesn't matter.

Roll with Manziel. Go Johnny Jam Boogie! (I just got this reference the other day and I kind of like it - at least better than 'Johnny Football')
 
It'll take a couple years to see if I'm right about Manziel so I'm not doing any victory dances just yet. I've been wrong more than right so I'll take what I can get.

I don't think Manziel's ever been a tool... just a party boy. His teammates loved him at A&M and they love him in Cleveland. He's a "guy's guy," a fun dude to be around, not a prick at all. Makes me think of Joe Montana in that way while Young was the "goody two-shoes" who didn't hang with the guys. Overall, "the guys" prefer the guy who hangs.

Manziel handle these 12 games perfectly. He didn't try to edge into Brian's light. He kept his head down. He cheered for Hoyer and met him at the sideline. I don't feel like he got that in return yesterday but I do understand: Manziel's "time" was always inevitable and won't be brief. When Hoyer got pulled, he knew it might be the last chance he'd have to be a starting QB other than a fill-in or bridge.
 
And I'll be the one to say it: Betcha Linta and Hoyer wish they could go back and take that preseason offer. Because I don't think they'll get anywhere near it now.
 
It'll take a couple years to see if I'm right about Manziel so I'm not doing any victory dances just yet. I've been wrong more than right so I'll take what I can get.

I don't think Manziel's ever been a tool... just a party boy. His teammates loved him at A&M and they love him in Cleveland. He's a "guy's guy," a fun dude to be around, not a prick at all. Makes me think of Joe Montana in that way while Young was the "goody two-shoes" who didn't hang with the guys. Overall, "the guys" prefer the guy who hangs.

Manziel handle these 12 games perfectly. He didn't try to edge into Brian's light. He kept his head down. He cheered for Hoyer and met him at the sideline. I don't feel like he got that in return yesterday but I do understand: Manziel's "time" was always inevitable and won't be brief. When Hoyer got pulled, he knew it might be the last chance he'd have to be a starting QB other than a fill-in or bridge.

I've read a lot about Manziel's family and from people who've known him in Texas to really feel any other way. His family was actually one of my concerns with drafting him. But that's probably getting a bit too deep into it.
 
It'll take a couple years to see if I'm right about Manziel so I'm not doing any victory dances just yet. I've been wrong more than right so I'll take what I can get.

I don't think Manziel's ever been a tool... just a party boy. His teammates loved him at A&M and they love him in Cleveland. He's a "guy's guy," a fun dude to be around, not a prick at all. Makes me think of Joe Montana in that way while Young was the "goody two-shoes" who didn't hang with the guys. Overall, "the guys" prefer the guy who hangs.

Manziel handle these 12 games perfectly. He didn't try to edge into Brian's light. He kept his head down. He cheered for Hoyer and met him at the sideline. I don't feel like he got that in return yesterday but I do understand: Manziel's "time" was always inevitable and won't be brief. When Hoyer got pulled, he knew it might be the last chance he'd have to be a starting QB other than a fill-in or bridge.

Johnny Manziel has a PR machine around him so we really have no idea what kind of guy he is and what his teammates think about him. Right now he is best known for his off the field antics and his Snickers commercial. There were rumblings that many were happy to see him leave College Station. I do not know the facts and neither do you.

Manziel "time" is here now, or at least it should be, and I have said he may make it as a decent NFL starter at some juncture but I doubt he will be the best QB coming out of this draft. Many games need to be played until we can assess Manziel, even if he has a good game Sunday against Indy. He is going to take his share of lumps if he QBs the rest of the season. Let's just hope he doesn't have a serious injury and is laid up through the beginning of activities next spring.

Because of his rep, defenses will be more fired up to face Manziel than Hoyer.
 
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I've read a lot about Manziel's family and from people who've known him in Texas to really feel any other way. His family was actually one of my concerns with drafting him. But that's probably getting a bit too deep into it.

Johnny comes from a very colorful family knows to engage in shall we say "shady" business dealings and have been know to "exploit" individuals for personal gain. In the Texas oil community that is known as doing "bidness".

As for Hoyer... the drive that kept him the league and got him 15 starts in Cleveland. I admire that.
 
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