Browns - Deshaun Watson - Football Talk | Page 10 | Barking Hard

Browns Deshaun Watson - Football Talk


That first sentence just keeps rattling around in my brain and I can't get rid of it.

"A failure to charge or convict a crime does not equate to innocence."

What does it mean then?

What happens when a legal process has played out on multiple fronts and found there is insufficient evidence to either record a conviction or even see formal charges pressed? What then becomes of the concept of innocence? When unproven allegations have to be taken as gospel? In her own words, she believes someone becomes "not only ignorant" but "evil" for wanting a standard of evidence to be met before forming an definitive opinion.

A standard of evidence is supposed to be the foundations on how we build what is the best of ourselves. It is literally the scientific process of how knowledge becomes accepted. I don't want to get political, but I strongly believe a lot of the issues we're seeing in modern society is because information which is unproven can so quickly be spread as factual. Do we all agree things like the theory dinosaurs didn't exist or flat-earth theory is insane? Should we take that as fact too without it meeting the standard of evidence?

She is correct that many, many people (especially men) have been guilty of crimes they were not charged with or convicted of. But how much power should a mere allegation, with quite literally zero proof, hold? And should people really be losing their careers based on unsubstantiated claims?

Take Ragnar, for instance, calling Watson a rapist. He isn't even accused of rape but the mere allegations have etched Watson's name forever as a rapist. Someone who could get away with it even if he was caught doing it. Anyone who disagrees is evil and just hates women.

I want to make clear I am not anti cancel culture. With as many options as we have in this day and age, of course we're going to prioritise that which better reflects our views and condemn that which does not. We're on a giant rock spinning in infinite space and our existence is both fleeting and largely inconsequential. We try to impact anything we can, and we rightfully should. But this isn't cancel culture. It's a growing belief an individual should be prosecuted for crimes they're accused of committing - even if those crimes are unproven.

I said at the time of the trade I wanted to wait on it because black men have historically been accused of being sexual predators based on no evidence. Cannabis prohibition was assisted in the United States by the claim it made black men sexual savages with a thirst for white women - and that was stated by the US government. Segregation was often said to be a positive to control the uncontrollable sexual urges of the black man. The lynching of black men often came with flimsy allegations of sexual impropriety. And I do believe history will one day look back on how often black athletes were accused of being sexually inappropriate with just as much contempt. We've already seen too many black men lose everything on false allegations of sexual assault or misconduct. See Brian Banks.

I am not saying these allegations are racially motivated. I am saying it isn't new to espouse the beliefs that black men should be treated as criminals based on sexual allegations which have no proof of ever occurring. In fact, one of the accusing women even directly mentioned his ethnicity in her open letter to him - in the context of her not being racist, but still, she somehow just needed to mention race.

I want to live in a world where proof reigns. Where we can all be called out for a lack of it. Because ultimately, the greatest achievements in our world have met a decent standard of proof. The worst of humanity fucking lacked it. It's Hitler's modern antisemitism, Jim Crow lynching and bad science in general.

If wanting evidence makes me evil, then I guess I am evil. But I would argue her insistence evidence is not needed in our society is a fucking despicable attitude to have.
 
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Well said.

I agree with everything except the, "I am not anti cancel culture" comment. I am 110% anti cancel culture. It is one of the worst things to happen to our society.
 
Except that, "grabbing a girl, slamming her on the massage table and raping her while she screams no" is not in any of the alleged victims' statements.

The mental gymnastics is your statement. Nothing like that has ever been stated until now.

I still think he's a shady mother fucker that pushed the line between moral and immoral. At the very least. I also believe these hoes played along until they were told to hop on the money train now. These hoes should have exposed Watson immediately if they were truly taken advantage of. Not walk away without so much as a word to the police, a lawyer or a rep from the team! I've yet to hear anything sensible from these "victims" as to how they managed their "trauma" for weeks and/or months before filing a claim.

I've told my daughter if anyone tries to take advantage of you let me know immediately. Let your mother know immediately. Let your brother's know immediately. Anybody. Somebody. Whoever you're comfortable with. Then we'll go hunt that mother fu...notify the appropriate authorities and handle it. ;)
Zero mental gymnastics on my part. That would be you guys referring to sexual assault victims as "hoes."

As for "yeah, but no one is saying he did THAT" it doesn't matter. The humiliation, degradation and mental toll on the 22+ victims is similar to had he done that act, if not the same. You don't get to dictate how rape and sexual assault victims process their trauma, period.

"Yeah but it is all just a money grab, all made up!" Except others have come forward, who are not part of any civil suits and several who asked NOT to have their business or legal names put out there who have corroborated the victims story. Who have provided additional Instagram DM's from him. Funny how they've nothing at all to gain yet felt a need to come forward and state that he has been kicked out of their businesses or turned down for repeat business due to sexually assaulting them.

22 of them on the record. Several that are not. Mental gymnastics by all his giddy cheerleaders. They are not "hoes" they are victims. He is a serial sexual predator that should be locked up on the PC yard in prison with Kellen Winslow, not idolized by drunk football fans making hundreds of millions of dollars after what he did.
 
That first sentence just keeps rattling around in my brain and I can't get rid of it.

"A failure to charge or convict a crime does not equate to innocence."

What does it mean then?

What happens when a legal process has played out on multiple fronts and found there is insufficient evidence to either record a conviction or even see formal charges pressed? What then becomes of the concept of innocence? When unproven allegations have to be taken as gospel? In her own words, she believes someone becomes "not only ignorant" but "evil" for wanting a standard of evidence to be met before forming an definitive opinion.

A standard of evidence is supposed to be the foundations on how we build what is the best of ourselves. It is literally the scientific process of how knowledge becomes accepted. I don't want to get political, but I strongly believe a lot of the issues we're seeing in modern society is because information which is unproven can so quickly be spread as factual. Do we all agree things like the theory dinosaurs didn't exist or flat-earth theory is insane? Should we take that as fact too without it meeting the standard of evidence?

She is correct that many, many people (especially men) have been guilty of crimes they were not charged with or convicted of. But how much power should a mere allegation, with quite literally zero proof, hold? And should people really be losing their careers based on unsubstantiated claims?

Take Ragnar, for instance, calling Watson a rapist. He isn't even accused of rape but the mere allegations have etched Watson's name forever as a rapist. Someone who could get away with it even if he was caught doing it. Anyone who disagrees is evil and just hates women.

I want to make clear I am not anti cancel culture. With as many options as we have in this day and age, of course we're going to prioritise that which better reflects our views and condemn that which does not. We're on a giant rock spinning in infinite space and our existence is both fleeting and largely inconsequential. We try to impact anything we can, and we rightfully should. But this isn't cancel culture. It's a growing belief an individual should be prosecuted for crimes they're accused of committing - even if those crimes are unproven.

I said at the time of the trade I wanted to wait on it because black men have historically been accused of being sexual predators based on no evidence. Cannabis prohibition was assisted in the United States by the claim it made black men sexual savages with a thirst for white women - and that was stated by the US government. Segregation was often said to be a positive to control the uncontrollable sexual urges of the black man. The lynching of black men often came with flimsy allegations of sexual impropriety. And I do believe history will one day look back on how often black athletes were accused of being sexually inappropriate with just as much contempt. We've already seen too many black men lose everything on false allegations of sexual assault or misconduct. See Brian Banks.

I am not saying these allegations are racially motivated. I am saying it isn't new to espouse the beliefs that black men should be treated as criminals based on sexual allegations which have no proof of ever occurring. In fact, one of the accusing women even directly mentioned his ethnicity in her open letter to him - in the context of her not being racist, but still, she somehow just needed to mention race.

I want to live in a world where proof reigns. Where we can all be called out for a lack of it. Because ultimately, the greatest achievements in our world have met a decent standard of proof. The worst of humanity fucking lacked it. It's Hitler's modern antisemitism, Jim Crow lynching and bad science in general.

If wanting evidence makes me evil, then I guess I am evil. But I would argue her insistence evidence is not needed in our society is a fucking despicable attitude to have.
Well, since you decided to try and play the race card based off of century old mythos about persecution, let's go there. That isn't the current America we live in, at all. Now, the current America is an America where...

We paint murals to Black male meth addicts that like to beat pregnant women because they overdosed and died in police custody after trying to use fake money and getting arrested. Murals all across the land lauding the tweaker as a Civil Rights hero. Our politicians give their families military rights despite the person never being in the military or serving in a war.

An America where roves of Black men can burn down, lot and destroy city after city with no prosecution, no arrests and again, hailed as innocent heros.

An America where gangs of Black men are caught ON FILM robbing Amazon, FedEx and UPS trucks, trains and semi trailers with zero done about it. No arrests, no prosecutions.

Where Black men who are ex Athletes can murder their ex wives and despite witnesses, motive, DNA and a fucking murder weapon they are found not guilty and free to commit further crime.

Where a Black man can repeatedly steal food from high end restaurants, rape a girl in College and go #1 overall in the NFL draft... Only to force himself on an Uber driver, caught on film, and yet again walk freely afterwards.

Where a Black man who plays in the NFL can be caught on film torturing and murdering defenseless animals as well as brag about knowingly infecting women with STD's as a game and be hailed as a hero for it by his people and the media, wherein he is given multiple slaps on the wrist for his actions and not only allowed to return to the NFL but lauded as yet another "innocent" hero.

An America where all across the US Black males are caught committing crimes only for DA's offices and grand juries to refuse to prosecute, either over fear of more looting and rioting or out of their twisted political ideology.

Hey, you wanted to go there bro. Systemic Black Racism and Black Privilege is the new of the game in modern America and it really isn't a shock that Watson is walking free from 22 sexual assaults when that is a daily occurrence across the United States.
 
It's not "black", it's poverty, that causes much of what you're talking about.
Big Ben in the pros, and Peyton Manning in college, were accused of rape. They got off too.

And it has always been a "who has the best lawyer" in many legal cases. Watson has a super-high end lawyer and the women decided on a sleezeball to represent them. Fair has nothing to do with it, neither do the facts. Watson will "win" this in the end. He has the superior legal council. That's the way the legal system works. Hate it or not. I kind of hate it tbh, but that's the way it is.

(Nick and Rag, sorry, but I'm going to put you two on "Ignore" as I'd like to keep coming here, but the vitriol of your posts isn't worth it to me. Nothing personal, it's just not the style of content I'm eager to read.)
 
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Speaking of DNA I would think there would be a ton of it logged into evidence. Was there any?

I don't look at Watson's issues as 22 women can't be wrong because they all could be. And if there were some who didn't want to prosecute his lawyer would say it was because they knew it was flimsy BS that would not stand up in any court. Each one of these shoes has to testify in a credible manner which is not impossible, but if they each saw his dick it might not be a crime in this situation. If they massaged his groin, it might not be a crime in this situation and if they touched his dick while doing that it might not be a crime. Hell if I was getting my groin massaged I might very well get some wood and my dick might hang out all over the place. In this situation that might not be enough to be considered a crime particularly if these shoes welcomed him back for another massage.

Again, I'm not saying Watson has no blame in this. But he's a damn idiot to even think going outside the teams facilities for massages is no cause for concern.
 
It's not "black", it's poverty, that causes much of what you're talking about.
Big Ben in the pros, and Peyton Manning in college, were accused of rape. They got off too.

And it has always been a "who has the best lawyer" in many legal cases. Watson has a super-high end lawyer and the women decided on a sleezeball to represent them. Fair has nothing to do with it, neither do the facts. Watson will "win" this in the end. He has the superior legal council. That's the way the legal system works. Hate it or not. I kind of hate it tbh, but that's the way it is.

(Nick and Rag, sorry, but I'm going to put you two on "Ignore" as I'd like to keep coming here, but the vitriol of your posts isn't worth it to me. Nothing personal, it's just not the style of content I'm eager to read.)
That's just fine with me. Outside of being a mindless cheerleader of anything and everything Haslem you've also just outed yourself of ignorant to actual society itself with your "it is poverty" trope.

No, no it isn't poverty. It is a Culture that glorifies criminal behavior as a standard to uphold, that relegates women to "hoes" that are only there to do whatever men tell them to do and a culture of entitled laziness, that since something happened to someone a century before they were born they are entitled to the exact same luxuries in life as the people working their asses off to EARN those luxuries. The same entitlement that would drive oh I don't know, a superstar "QB" in the NFL to sexually assault 22 women because he is entitled to their sexual attention, after all he is rich, famous and Black.

Too bad you had to virtue signal and put people on ignore for shooting facts, cause I would really love to know... Did DeShaun assault these women because he is.... Poor? Since it is "poverty" and all. How about Jameis, did he rape two girls because he is just a po' boy out there trying to survive?

Let's call it what it actually is, snowflake.
 
That first sentence just keeps rattling around in my brain and I can't get rid of it.

"A failure to charge or convict a crime does not equate to innocence."

What does it mean then?

What happens when a legal process has played out on multiple fronts and found there is insufficient evidence to either record a conviction or even see formal charges pressed? What then becomes of the concept of innocence? When unproven allegations have to be taken as gospel? In her own words, she believes someone becomes "not only ignorant" but "evil" for wanting a standard of evidence to be met before forming an definitive opinion.

A standard of evidence is supposed to be the foundations on how we build what is the best of ourselves. It is literally the scientific process of how knowledge becomes accepted. I don't want to get political, but I strongly believe a lot of the issues we're seeing in modern society is because information which is unproven can so quickly be spread as factual. Do we all agree things like the theory dinosaurs didn't exist or flat-earth theory is insane? Should we take that as fact too without it meeting the standard of evidence?

She is correct that many, many people (especially men) have been guilty of crimes they were not charged with or convicted of. But how much power should a mere allegation, with quite literally zero proof, hold? And should people really be losing their careers based on unsubstantiated claims?

Take Ragnar, for instance, calling Watson a rapist. He isn't even accused of rape but the mere allegations have etched Watson's name forever as a rapist. Someone who could get away with it even if he was caught doing it. Anyone who disagrees is evil and just hates women.

I want to make clear I am not anti cancel culture. With as many options as we have in this day and age, of course we're going to prioritise that which better reflects our views and condemn that which does not. We're on a giant rock spinning in infinite space and our existence is both fleeting and largely inconsequential. We try to impact anything we can, and we rightfully should. But this isn't cancel culture. It's a growing belief an individual should be prosecuted for crimes they're accused of committing - even if those crimes are unproven.

I said at the time of the trade I wanted to wait on it because black men have historically been accused of being sexual predators based on no evidence. Cannabis prohibition was assisted in the United States by the claim it made black men sexual savages with a thirst for white women - and that was stated by the US government. Segregation was often said to be a positive to control the uncontrollable sexual urges of the black man. The lynching of black men often came with flimsy allegations of sexual impropriety. And I do believe history will one day look back on how often black athletes were accused of being sexually inappropriate with just as much contempt. We've already seen too many black men lose everything on false allegations of sexual assault or misconduct. See Brian Banks.

I am not saying these allegations are racially motivated. I am saying it isn't new to espouse the beliefs that black men should be treated as criminals based on sexual allegations which have no proof of ever occurring. In fact, one of the accusing women even directly mentioned his ethnicity in her open letter to him - in the context of her not being racist, but still, she somehow just needed to mention race.

I want to live in a world where proof reigns. Where we can all be called out for a lack of it. Because ultimately, the greatest achievements in our world have met a decent standard of proof. The worst of humanity fucking lacked it. It's Hitler's modern antisemitism, Jim Crow lynching and bad science in general.

If wanting evidence makes me evil, then I guess I am evil. But I would argue her insistence evidence is not needed in our society is a fucking despicable attitude to have.
Read it all and agree.
Except that I am for above reasons very much against cancel culture.
Cancel culture is the new lynch mob and the enemy of free speech.

I am 99% for free speech, the one percemt being calls to violence/illegal activity.

From the start of this story, I said I want to hold judgement until proof or evidence its provided. A judge should judge, not a twitter mob. Not journalists who need clickbait.
"22 women cant be wrong" was the go-to sentence to pre-emptively convict Deshaun Watson.
Well, if they cant be wrong, then show me.

The deafening silence by the people who virtue signalled the loudest is telling.

Everyone always so easily joins the mob to show "no I am really the best kid on the block, look at how I support #current_thing!".
Makes you wonder why they want to prove it so hard.
Every human is a dopamine addict, but only some can manage it.
 
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Zero mental gymnastics on my part. That would be you guys referring to sexual assault victims as "hoes."

As for "yeah, but no one is saying he did THAT" it doesn't matter. The humiliation, degradation and mental toll on the 22+ victims is similar to had he done that act, if not the same. You don't get to dictate how rape and sexual assault victims process their trauma, period.

"Yeah but it is all just a money grab, all made up!" Except others have come forward, who are not part of any civil suits and several who asked NOT to have their business or legal names put out there who have corroborated the victims story. Who have provided additional Instagram DM's from him. Funny how they've nothing at all to gain yet felt a need to come forward and state that he has been kicked out of their businesses or turned down for repeat business due to sexually assaulting them.

22 of them on the record. Several that are not. Mental gymnastics by all his giddy cheerleaders. They are not "hoes" they are victims. He is a serial sexual predator that should be locked up on the PC yard in prison with Kellen Winslow, not idolized by drunk football fans making hundreds of millions of dollars after what he did.
Saying he's a rapist is a falsehood you chose to perpetuate. You compared other rape victims to these 22 sexual assaults with an assumption that they are all rape victims because they process their trauma similarly. I'm not buying that.

I've interviewed rape victims. One victim said she had abdominal pain since her rape only to find out the pain was because she had more than one condom stuck inside her nasty crotch from pulling tricks. She was a real piece of work.

Another victim claimed her boyfriend raped her. Except that he didn't. They had an off and on relationship and when they were off, unknown to him, she claimed rape. He said everything was fine until she found his porn mags in his room and blew a gasket on him and he showed her the door. She recanted her story when I told her she'll be tried on a felony charge if she's subsequently found to be disingenuous in any way during the trial.

I need more evidence than she said he said. Maybe something will break that way and we get to the truth one way or the other, idk. Until then he's innocent. #evilbitches
 
One hoe was allegedly using her 12 year old ish daughter as bait. Absolutely disgusting, but we never were able to charge her and she disappeared with her daughter as soon as she saw PD hanging around...A lot.
 
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Supposedly, here’s he kind of hearsay stuff Watson’s lawyer has. His own hearsay to throw at the plaintiff's hearsay.

• 8 of the plaintiffs bragged about giving Watson a massage to friends
• 7 offered to massage him again
• 3 have exaggerated/lied about how many massages they gave him
• 5 have said to friends they’re in it for the money

Who knows. Not I, that's for sure.
 
Looking at this from the other point of view 15 of these accusers most likely will be thrown out of the court. If those numbers are true. The first 8 that bragged isn't enough to show much of anything.

Bragging isn't good, but neither is an NFL player going for a massage outside of his teams facility. It could go either way I think.
 
It's going to depend on the judge. If he ends up with a man hating female judge, or a soy eating beta male ....he will be making these chicks rich. If he ends up with a judge that actually follows the letter of the law, or has his own experiences with the evils of women .....he will win out. Sadly judges are a joke anymore. They are political figures and idealogues instead of going by the book.

I had my own experiences with our joke of a family court system. I went to war with them and they stole 35k and I still only have 50% custody of my boys, all because I ended up with the wrong man hater. My attorneys were almost disbarred. Bitch.
 
It's going to depend on the judge. If he ends up with a man hating female judge, or a soy eating beta male ....he will be making these chicks rich. If he ends up with a judge that actually follows the letter of the law, or has his own experiences with the evils of women .....he will win out. Sadly judges are a joke anymore. They are political figures and idealogues instead of going by the book.

I had my own experiences with our joke of a family court system. I went to war with them and they stole 35k and I still only have 50% custody of my boys, all because I ended up with the wrong man hater. My attorneys were almost disbarred. Bitch.
My understanding is a female judge is presiding over the case...
 
As for "yeah, but no one is saying he did THAT" it doesn't matter. The humiliation, degradation and mental toll on the 22+ victims is similar to had he done that act, if not the same. You don't get to dictate how rape and sexual assault victims process their trauma, period.
it doesn't matter
It definitely DOES matter.

Are you seriously saying that these women have the same trauma as they would have had if they had been raped instead of shown a penis?

Or is your argument that the level of trauma, dictates the level of someone's crime?

Your mental gymnastics are that 'even though he did not do it, he should still be called that, because that's the level he is at, according to the women'.

Again, these are not rape victims.
Sexual Assault is a reach, but even if it was, it is by far not on par with rape.

The way you're equalizing these obviously not-rape cases with actual rape cases, diminishes the hurt the real rape victims endure.
You don't see that yourself?
 
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