Investigating the Investigators or taking down the Deep State | Page 5 | Barking Hard

Investigating the Investigators or taking down the Deep State

Mask

Brownsfan said:
I don't think many people have died because they took extra precautions with disinfecting surfaces. Nor do I think disinfecting surfaces should be neglected out of hand. However, now that we know that surfaces are not one of the significant causes of the spread of the virus we can have more confident in what we must do. Specifically, we must continue social distancing and face coverings as the main line of defense against the disease while reopening.

The deal is that people at the CDC are like normal people. When there is a scarcity of reliable information, they tend to err on the side of caution. They read a study of the virus remaining on surfaces for significant periods of time and they put out a warning. They subsequently learn that it wasn't actually a live transmittable virus that was found and, if they are honest, they back off.

What they said initially wasn't a lie. It was the best information they had at the time coupled with a measure of caution. The easy thing to do actually would have been to maintain the original misinformation. It is the usual bureaucratic thing to do, but if they do that, they perpetuate an unwarranted and needless concern. At that point, it does become a lie.

They didn't do that in this case and I think they should be commended for it.
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Cliff
was talking about the Mask lying. sorry about not adding the word mask.
 
madmadworld said:
Cliff
was talking about the Mask lying. sorry about not adding the word mask.
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Okay, you have a point in that respect, although I think they were pretty transparent telling us we didn't need to wear masks while also telling us that if people bought masks in large numbers, there wouldn’t be enough for health providers.

Alan Dershowitz wrote a column about that back in March that I thought was pretty good. I did a quick search and found it. Here it is:

Believe Science But Be Skeptical of Scientists

By Alan Dershowitz Wednesday, 18 March 2020

https://www.newsmax.com/alandershowitz/public-health-officials-masks/2020/03/18/id/958851/

I am a skeptic by nature. I never believe what I read or hear without independently checking it. So when I read that public health officials were urging people not to buy face masks, because they don’t work, I was doubtful.

The officials also said that if individuals buy facemasks in large numbers, there won’t be enough for health providers. That I believed. But the combination of reasons — they don’t work, but they are important for health providers — immediately set off alarm bells in my skeptical mind.

If they don't work for ordinary individuals, why should they work for health providers?

Maybe there is a relevant difference. I kept an open but skeptical mind, while wearing the single N95 mask that I bought just in case.
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Like Alan, I wore a mask when I left the house, figuring it stood to reason that it wouldn't hurt.
 
Alarm bells

Brownsfan said:
Okay, you have a point in that respect, although I think they were pretty transparent telling us we didn't need to wear masks while also telling us that if people bought masks in large numbers, there wouldn’t be enough for health providers.

Alan Dershowitz wrote a column about that back in March that I thought was pretty good. I did a quick search and found it. Here it is:

Believe Science But Be Skeptical of Scientists

By Alan Dershowitz Wednesday, 18 March 2020

https://www.newsmax.com/alandershowitz/public-health-officials-masks/2020/03/18/id/958851/




Like Alan, I wore a mask when I left the house, figuring it stood to reason that it wouldn't hurt.
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You,Alan & me are above average listeners. we all have "alarm bells". they lied about masks saying wearing them didn't help, when they were just worried about having enough PPE for the front line workers.
if they had just told the truth about masks people would have made their own and saved some of the spread and deaths. it took the so called experts 2+ months to come clean.
 
Brownsfan said:
Just a guess, but I would imagine that there will be a great deal for Gabe to enjoy in the coming days, weeks and months. Cheers.
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More propaganda from the most corrupt president this
country has ever known, wins the electoral college,maybe?
How about once trump is out of office and sycophants
are gone we might actually find out why nobody would
testify and Giuliani ,Flynn , Manafort and Barr were busy with the Biden’s in Ukraine?
Does that move our country forward? It doesn’t.
Why accept criticism when you can block,fire whoever
and start BS instead of leading the country.

Six Trillion to the debt, forty million unemployed yet
the stock market, big pharma and insurance companies
are booming, no small business loans for those who actually
need it and those are businesses that won’t make a comeback.

Why is this even a conversation, W handed off a complete mess
and a bankrupt country But it’s all Obama’s fault?
Trump will be handing off pretty much the same stank as W laid on
America whether it’s this year or in four more years.
Conspiracies are distractions and there is nobody to blame for
Flynn except himself or whoever ordered him to talk to Russia.
a strong economy was his cruise control to re-election but now
that’s gone, let’s run on division and hate just like 2016 except
the outsider is now the incumbent.
“What have you got to lose?”
 
madmadworld said:
You,Alan & me are above average listeners. we all have "alarm bells". they lied about masks saying wearing them didn't help, when they were just worried about having enough PPE for the front line workers.
if they had just told the truth about masks people would have made their own and saved some of the spread and deaths. it took the so called experts 2+ months to come clean.
Click to expand...

I am not in the habit of defending government bureaucracy and bureaucrats. I thought that in the deal with surfaces someone in the CDC was uncharacteristically honest and ought to be commended That defense does not extend to the lie about masks, although it was a rather transparent lie and they eventually did get it right. Cheers.
 
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What is this noise about nobody testifying, Dan? Strange, I had the idea that McCabe, Lynch, Yates, Strzok, Clapper, Comey and Brennan among others will be testifying in the coming weeks.

I may be wrong, but I doubt that Ukraine ever becomes a major issue. I strongly suspect that what Joe and Hunter did in Ukraine was corrupt, but it generally isn't illegal for family members of government officials to profit from the association.

I could also be wrong about the Flynn and FISA matters, but I suspect that extensive wrong doing and significant crimes will be uncovered in the coming days, weeks and months.

We will see who is right.
 
Prevented

Brownsfan said:
That defense does not extend to the lie about masks, although it was a rather transparent lie and they eventually did get it right. Cheers.
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The fact is they were never telling the truth until early March(Italy) about the whole deal. masks April 03. now they say 75% effective.

It suggests coronavirus transmission may drop as much as 75 percent when surgical masks are used.

If for some reason they are now telling the truth. do the math on the spread & deaths that could have been prevented. outrageous and unforgivable. CDC go fuck yourself. Trump should Fire them all at the Top
Brownsfan said:
I am not in the habit of defending government bureaucracy and bureaucrats
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My advice don't start a new habit during a pandemic. you are better than that.
 
The Lesson

more from article
https://www.vox.com/2020/5/21/21266413/coronavirus-face-masks-trump-cdc-n95

For this reason, a growing number of doctors, scientists, and public health experts are now calling for universal masking in indoor public spaces and crowded outdoor spaces. One recent study, not yet through peer review, analyzed data from Hong Kong, where near-universal masking was voluntarily adopted very early in the pandemic. It suggests coronavirus transmission may drop as much as 75 percent when surgical masks are used. And other studies suggest that if mask use were universal, it would control transmission even better than a strict lockdown. Especially as the US begins to reopen, masks will be critical tools to help control public transmission.

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Just think of how different the spread would have been if we were wearing masks starting in Feb. if that 75% is anywhere near right.
maybe just maybe we don't have a lockdown. Columbia University just did a study that if we had put in social distancing 1 week earlier it would have saved 36,000 lives. these are simple things we could have easily done.

For me social distancing comes up at about 12 feet. Why do you say that MMW ?
Because when Gov puts a figure on something it ends up costing twice that much, so I double it in this case also. :yo:

The lesson here is as always the question...... Do you trust the Government ?
CDC Causers of Death & Confusion
 
madmadworld said:
The fact is they were never telling the truth until early March(Italy) about the whole deal. masks April 03. now they say 75% effective.

It suggests coronavirus transmission may drop as much as 75 percent when surgical masks are used.

If for some reason they are now telling the truth. do the math on the spread & deaths that could have been prevented. outrageous and unforgivable. CDC go fuck yourself. Trump should Fire them all at the Top

My advice don't start a new habit during a pandemic. you are better than that.
Click to expand...

Look, you are putting me in the rather uncomfortable position of defending government bureaucrats being less than fully transparent. But the fact is that, in this case, some bureaucrats were caught in the middle and there was good justification for their fears that if they told the full truth that people would likely hoard face masks. Remember the run on TP?

And maybe we should remember that until we ramped up manufacture here (and it took a while), the manufacture of masks was mainly in China and China was hoarding PPE. So if you hardly had what you needed for your health providers, how are you going to save lives if there is a run on masks similar to that of TP.

So maybe they handled it about as well as it could have been handled.

Of course, if they had had a stockpile of masks available, they might have saved some lives. But they didn't and they also faced the prospect of a run on protective equipment they needed for their healthcare providers. In the beginning, if you recall, there were shortages even for healthcare providers. So they told people to do two things: stay home and social distance.

As for the 75% angle, remember that staying home and social distancing is also effective. A mask does you no good if you are home by yourself and my guess is that a 75% improvement does not apply if you are social distancing. I mean, get real. They didn't tell you to go mingle in crowded streets without a mask.
 
But Cliff

If they had told the truth people would have not been infected at the same rate. thus the healthcare workers would have not needed to horde the PPE for themselves.
fact is the Gov was picking winners and losers. in this case peoples lives, who lives who dies.

75% angle
Look at Chinese's neighboring countries They just wear cheap masks their death rate is single digits. we are at 298 per million.

Heck by the time of the Lockdown (Mar16) the PPE was really settled, on the open market wise. the Gov had bought/ordered all they could find by then. Tucker had spoke about 3M their capacity etc back in Feb. people thought he was crazy too.

The Gov seized a shit load of n95 masks from a distributor he was sol last I heard.

Instead we have massive death of elderly, Trillions of Dollars debt and losses. over masks and social distancing.
what they did was sent us off to War with out even a knife & boots.
 
madmadworld said:
For this reason, a growing number of doctors, scientists, and public health experts are now calling for universal masking in indoor public spaces and crowded outdoor spaces. One recent study, not yet through peer review, analyzed data from Hong Kong, where near-universal masking was voluntarily adopted very early in the pandemic. It suggests coronavirus transmission may drop as much as 75 percent when surgical masks are used. And other studies suggest that if mask use were universal, it would control transmission even better than a strict lockdown. Especially as the US begins to reopen, masks will be critical tools to help control public transmission.
Click to expand...

I addressed this on the football board on the basis that it addressed issues related to fan participation professional sports. It was posted to the schedule thread.
 
madmadworld said:
If they had told the truth people would have not been infected at the same rate. thus the healthcare workers would have not needed to horde the PPE for themselves.
fact is the Gov was picking winners and losers. in this case peoples lives, who lives who dies.

75% angle
Look at Chinese's neighboring countries They just wear cheap masks their death rate is single digits. we are at 298 per million.

Heck by the time of the Lockdown (Mar16) the PPE was really settled, on the open market wise. the Gov had bought/ordered all they could find by then. Tucker had spoke about 3M their capacity etc back in Feb. people thought he was crazy too.

The Gov seized a shit load of n95 masks from a distributor he was sol last I heard.

Instead we have massive death of elderly, Trillions of Dollars debt and losses. over masks and social distancing.
what they did was sent us off to War with out even a knife & boots.
Click to expand...

I think I have said about all I want to say about the supply of masks in the early days and the downplaying of the need. In order to further argue that in an honest manner I would have to do more research than I am interested in doing at this time. I do remember complaints of healthcare providers about inadequate supply of PPE during the early months, but I think I will leave it at that.

Regarding the elderly, most of those were in nursing homes, and the infection rates in nursing homes had little if anything to do with the lack of face coverings. The question going forward regarding the elderly in nursing homes is how we safely relax rules of family members visiting their loved ones in nursing homes and the role that masks will play in that between now and when a vaccine is available.
 
Wow, look at all this wallpaper,
I think all healthy people should go into
retirement communities and say hi to everyone
shake hands laugh with them and have a good ole time.
Then go out to dinner and breath all over everyone else!
Making this pandemic political is a recipe for disaster but
I’m not worried,I won’t be there....
We are without a doubt heading for two maybe three waves
because our economy needs to resume NOW!
Why?, the entire globe is dealing with this right now and it
makes good sense to restart the economy once it’s over.
Numbers indicate both Georgia and Alabama are trending
back up and it’s going to trend back up across the country.

Trump can’t run on the economy anymore so let’s start the
blame game and conspiracy theories that will win the day!
Trump has become everything he ran against.
 
More Bull from Trump

But the newspaper said a chart provided by the Trump administration with the budget shows that by 2016 ― Obama’s final year in office ― the nation’s public health emergency preparedness was at least 98% on every key measure.
“That’s by the Trump administration’s own assessment,” the Post-Dispatch said. “If the cupboard was bare, it’s because Trump swept it clean.”

St Lois dispatch 5-26-20
 
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