It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns | Page 2 | Barking Hard

It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns

Sorry player fans. It's time. Baker Mayfield is an average NFL QB, a future journeyman ...and it's time to look at our options. There are only two QBs in the NFL worse than Baker Mayfield in the 4th quarter. We routinely finish in the bottom half in almost every meaningful passing category. There is nothing at all special about him. I used to think he had an elite arm, but a lot of QBs can throw the ball hard. He can certainly throw it, but how well does he pass it really? High, hard, and behind. Rinse and repeat. A large percentage of his completions go that route as well. He has every single weakness he had coming out of college. Nothing at all has improved. In the NFL he isn't chucking up prayers to NFL caliber WRs being covered by guys who are now checking out your groceries. Baker Mayfield is the 4th best QB in the AFC North. Out of 4 teams.



Last place in the division. Most in here predicted outlandish success this season. 12 wins? 14? Maybe more. This blow-hard thought we would likely have less wins than last season, simply due to a historically easy schedule in 2020. The Browns just lost to a team with no kicker, and a fat QB who likely has lower back problems, and runs about as fast as an arthritic sloth. People are now starting to look for new excuses. The new coach is holding the team back. The WRs drop the ball too much. Mean fans are hurting Emily Mayfield's feelings and it's having an effect on Baker's play. The truth is, there's a bottleneck at the QB position. We have a Superbowl caliber roster, and a QB that is limiting what we can do with it. Baker Mayfield is the best QB we have had in twenty years ....and people are desperate to defend him. I get it.



Against the Steelers on Sunday we witnessed something we try really hard to ignore. Baker throwing high and hard the majority of the game. While throwing from the pocket, Baker not only can't see most of the field, but he throws his trademark bullets high enough to get over the defenders standing between he and his receiver. This just doesn't work, as the trajectory of these bullets leave them high and often behind his mark. A difficult ask of WRs, TEs, and RBs. You'll have player fans on twitter showing slow motion replays of a ball going through Hooper's hand, and calling anyone who dares criticize Baker a "mouth breather", but in reality Hooper was at the top of his jump, arms outstretched to the max, trying to reel in a high, hard, and behind football. Could have easily been a walk in touchdown instead... a bad pass. A QB could normally avoid this by putting some touch on the ball, a little arc, or air under it ....but Baker doesn't seem to have that gear.

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Mayfield throughout his entire career has made a cottage industry of rolling to his right. It seems to be the one thing he is great at. The problem is, when you are a one-trick pony, other teams game-plan to take that trick away from you. Baker has rolled right and attempted to pass a total of 6 times this year. Think about that in relation to each year prior. Teams have forced Baker into the pocket, the Steelers literally dared the Browns to pass practically the entire game. How is it working out?

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Fourth quarter, and another chance to win a game. Most of us knew what was going to happen didn't we? We have held onto hope, praying that the light would go on, that Baker would make wholesale changes, and he would become the Browns franchise QB ...someone we could count on to put the team on his back and lead us to victory with the game on the line. What we have got in reality is a QB that is 33 of 62, with 4 TDs and 5 INTS. Sam Darnold is the only QB as bad as Mayfield with the game on the line since 2018. Mayfield's passing rating with the game on the line is 61.3 and the Browns are 3-11 in these scenarios.

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Kevin Stefanski was hired to reign in Mayfield's erratic tendencies. Stefanski's offense tends to turn average QBs into statistical wonders, (Case Keenum) and perhaps limit some players at certain positions, like a downfield QB and burner WR for example. Some argue that Stefanski has taken Mayfield's gunslinger aura away from him, which while true is also the reason why Baker has become far less prone to interceptions. The dink and dunk offense with numerous screens and TE heavy route trees certainly makes a QB look good on paper at times ...but who is Baker Mayfield without the ability to roll out on play action and plant bombs down the field? Certainly these are often 50/50 bombs, but they do add to what an opposing defense has to worry about. Mayfield has 10 completions of 20 or more yards this season ...20th in the league. Recall Stefon Diggs having the same issue that OBJ is currently having in the Stefanski offense. He moved on to the Bills and is back to all-pro form. I suspect OBJ will do the same for some other team.

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In short, we have no vertical passing attack, while employing one of the very best WR tandems in the game, and one of the fastest WRs in the league in Schwartz. Did the Browns hire the right coach? If you believe analytics and going by the book is usually right, then yes. If you believe in coaches who base decisions on the ebb and flow of the game, their "gut" as it were, then no. We are the worst team in the league at going for it on 4th down. Analytics got us there.

We could have had Canton native and lifelong Browns fan Josh McDaniels.

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So where are we now? A Superbowl caliber roster, with an extremely limited QB, and a coach who can only go by the book, apparently not capable of harnessing whatever "elite" trait Mayfield may have, if he has one at all. Playoffs this season ...not likely. Our Superbowl window is open for only a short while ...without the Browns front office doing something extremely out of character (see, ballsy) like going after a Watson, Wilson, or Rogers ...I don't see us going anywhere.

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(yes another QB thread)
 
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Thank you for proving my point. Baker is the worst QB in the 4th quarter in the NFL since he entered the league. Average is cool, if you are fine with 5-10 wins and no Superbowls.
We made the playoffs with him at QB last year and beat the Steelers and almost beat the Chiefs. I knew you were one of those "only the QB matters" kind of guys. I'll take 26 tds and 8 ints from my "average" QB every season.
 
An analytics driven, dink and dunk system ...if it works I'm fine with it. But we have a Superbowl roster, and it ain't working. I can't know though until I see a different QB under center.
Aditi said at about 07:45 of the interview that Alex Van Pelt said Baker's hands and forearms are all beat up, but that he played a helluva game. The other players need to catch the ball...Hooper dropped a TD ball. Also added, at 15:20 that Dan Jeremiah who is a color guy for the Chargers, and a guy I have much respect for, told her the Browns are absolutely loaded and was the best roster he's seen so far. Aditi added that we'll struggle right now through all these injuries, but it'll get better if the team can stay together.

So much great stuff about the Browns and yet we're 4-4. :confused::unsure:

 
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We made the playoffs with him at QB last year and beat the Steelers and almost beat the Chiefs. I knew you were one of those "only the QB matters" kind of guys. I'll take 26 tds and 8 ints from my "average" QB every season.
Every journeyman QB in the league has a year to hang their hat on. Bakers happens to be the Covid year when half the league was sick and he had a historically easy schedule, with a first year coach, and unprepared teams with zero offseason. Cool, glad you are happy with it. Fans like you enable mediocrity. It's why the billionaires at the top don't care about winning.
 
Aditi said at about 07:45 of the interview that Alex Van Pelt said Baker's hands and forearms are all beat up, but that he played a helluva game. The other players need to catch the ball...Hooper dropped a TD ball. Also added, at 15:20 that Dan Jeremiah who is a color guy for the Chargers, and a guy I have much respect for, told her the Browns are absolutely loaded and was the best roster he's seen so far. Aditi added that we'll struggle right now through all these injuries, but it'll get better if the team can stay together.

So much great stuff about the Browns and yet we're 4-4. :confused::unsure:

Our team was relatively healthy against the Steelers. More healthy than most teams. Hooper did not drop a TD ball. Where Baker placed that made a TD impossible even if he caught it. Had he thrown a nice pass it would have been an easy walk in TD.
 
you're not the only one who had doubts.I wanted us to draft a QB last year. (tyree jackson) 6'7" who we could have got as an UFA
IMO the most talented QB in years who never even got a chance (now a TE for the eagles)
we should already have a rookie taking snaps goddamnit!
baker is supposed to keep improving after last year,he is regressing.we are regressing.next year will be worse.
 
OBJ's dad just agreed that Mayfield is mediocre and won't be getting paid. Then Dwayne Bowe chimed in and agreed that Baker ended his career too. Honestly as a WR would you want Baker as your QB? Besides not seeing what's right in front of him, he has always thrown hard and high, putting the receivers career on the line.
 
saw this on reddit. cut obj, he makes baker worse:

Baker with / without OBJ numbers for his career:
2018 Without Odell: 310/486 (63%) 3,725 27 TD's 14 INTS. (13.5 games) Rating 93.7

2019 With Odell: 317/534 (59%) 3,827 22/21 78.8 rating

2020 With Odell : 103/170 1,095 (61%) 1,095 10/6 84.3 rating

2020 Without Odell (including playoffs) 246/387 2,935 20/3 101 rating

2021 Without Odell : 40/49 534 1/2 101.8 Rating

2021 With Odell: 96/155 1,165 5/1 93.1 rating.

Overall Baker without Odell:
16-11 W/L
596/922 (64%) 7194 yards 48TD 19INT 97 QB Rating


Baker with Odell
10-12 W/L
516/859 (60%) 6087 37TD 28 INT 82 QB Rating


He's just better without Odell period, and had his most successful stretches of his career without Odell.
 
I'd be curious to see how many games he played with OBJ suited up VS not each year (besides 2018 as stated). Would be a nice compliment with the stats above. Numbers are great and all but can be a bit misleading at a granular level.
 
This is a bit ridiculous. People now saying he's doing it on purpose. He doesn't want to throw to him? First KS and now BM. Oh good god, spare me the drama. Another person inside the Browns organization is purposely sabotaging their career to undermine another. It's a mess, doesn't mean it has to be a conspiracy theory.
Nonsensical conspiracy are in style these days
 
saw this on reddit. cut obj, he makes baker worse:

Baker with / without OBJ numbers for his career:
2018 Without Odell: 310/486 (63%) 3,725 27 TD's 14 INTS. (13.5 games) Rating 93.7

2019 With Odell: 317/534 (59%) 3,827 22/21 78.8 rating

2020 With Odell : 103/170 1,095 (61%) 1,095 10/6 84.3 rating

2020 Without Odell (including playoffs) 246/387 2,935 20/3 101 rating

2021 Without Odell : 40/49 534 1/2 101.8 Rating

2021 With Odell: 96/155 1,165 5/1 93.1 rating.

Overall Baker without Odell:
16-11 W/L
596/922 (64%) 7194 yards 48TD 19INT 97 QB Rating


Baker with Odell
10-12 W/L
516/859 (60%) 6087 37TD 28 INT 82 QB Rating


He's just better without Odell period, and had his most successful stretches of his career without Odell.
Can't compare 2018 since OBJ was not even with the Browns

2019 you have the kitchens mess.

2020 is completely disregarding the reality that it was a new offense and the offense as a whole got better as the season went on.

Those stats are easily chalked up as coincidental.

Also depends on ones definition of successful stretches. During the stretch last year Baker had multiple strings of games where he didn't crack 200 yards passing and had zero TDs. Team wins and success do not always equal good QB play
 
you're not the only one who had doubts.I wanted us to draft a QB last year. (tyree jackson) 6'7" who we could have got as an UFA
IMO the most talented QB in years who never even got a chance (now a TE for the eagles)
we should already have a rookie taking snaps goddamnit!
baker is supposed to keep improving after last year,he is regressing.we are regressing.next year will be worse.
Tyree who?!

Dude I swear you fall in love with some strange mother fuckers. Who was that guy you liked in the draft and you actually took ahead of several obvious talents? It was on that draft board thingy.

Anyway you're right we are regressing albeit with several injuries. Some of the usual suspects too like Ward, Clowney and Phillips. Starters that were supposed to contribute.

 
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