Browns Stefanski
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madmadworld
The Official TV Watcher
Forced ? might be the wrong word too strong. I think he felt heathy enough to play. he looked like in moments but not constantly. hell he looked lost at times. it's just a sad story.
MKO3090
Member
It is my personal belief, along with many others, that ownership had a mandate for Deshaun Watson to start, due to the amount of money he was/is making.
Vrabel could be on the sidelines for a number of reasons. He is a part of the team. All reputable reporting has stated that Stefanski (& Berry for that matter) will be back next season, so there is more than likely no High Court Drama in Berea.
Vrabel could be on the sidelines for a number of reasons. He is a part of the team. All reputable reporting has stated that Stefanski (& Berry for that matter) will be back next season, so there is more than likely no High Court Drama in Berea.
madmadworld
The Official TV Watcher
Now a mandate was surely there he was paid to be a starter, a high priced starter. but you can't force players to play a sport these days for sure.
TheBestPlayersPlay
Die-Hard
Ownership had to be convinced by the collective (Stefanski,AB,Depo) to even sign Watson, they wanted to keep Baker.
Martin Eden
Well-known member
I don't think we know whose idea it was originally. I'd guess AB. But the decision to dump Baker and get Watson has set us back 5 years. In some ways, Baker's decision to tackle the dude in the Houston game is partially to blame.
No matter, our Super Bowl window has closed. Deciding to go all-in on Deshaun Watson has proven to be the worst move in NFL history.
If If If. . . I know. But we could have won it all last season if we'd shut Baker down in 2021 and let him recover. Instead, we're fucked. And the Watson is our savior crew is now silent on his greatness, or lack thereof.
TheBestPlayersPlay
Die-Hard
We were never going to win it all with Stefanski, he doesn't have it in him. He can't manage stars, among many other flaws.
Making one of the biggest trades in NFL history, and then forcing the player to play for the nerd hivemind was a failing endeavor from the start. Watson always needed an in control alpha, he did with the Texans as well. We paired him with a wallflower and a couple of Ivy League overseers. Let's face it, Stefanski did not like Baker, he did not get along with him for YEARS before damaging him with piss poor management. Stefanski wants a QB who will robotically do what he has on his Dennys menu ...thus when the Watson opportunity came up, they jumped at it... stupidly believing they could neuter the star QB into their idea of an offense. No, that was never going to happen. Will I be surprised even a little bit if Watson goes on to succeed elsewhere? No, although he may be damaged goods at this point.
Making one of the biggest trades in NFL history, and then forcing the player to play for the nerd hivemind was a failing endeavor from the start. Watson always needed an in control alpha, he did with the Texans as well. We paired him with a wallflower and a couple of Ivy League overseers. Let's face it, Stefanski did not like Baker, he did not get along with him for YEARS before damaging him with piss poor management. Stefanski wants a QB who will robotically do what he has on his Dennys menu ...thus when the Watson opportunity came up, they jumped at it... stupidly believing they could neuter the star QB into their idea of an offense. No, that was never going to happen. Will I be surprised even a little bit if Watson goes on to succeed elsewhere? No, although he may be damaged goods at this point.
jaydog
Football God
No, he is not part of the team nor is he listed anywhere else. He's a ghost. Not really. He's around the team. A lot. On game day. On the sideline. After they said he wouldn't be as it would undermine KS if he were there. Don't ignore what was said before and how they have done a complete 180 without the media asking why there has been a change just because media says KS is coming back now.
It's right in front of all of us. Vrabel. And it's not like Vrabel is next to KS holding hands whispering into his ears.
Martin Eden
Well-known member
Hmm. . . dumping Kev and Schwartz for Vrabel seems pretty stupid to me.
TheBestPlayersPlay
Die-Hard
No need to dump Schwartz, and I doubt he would, they are very close.
Masters
Well-known member
Because we weren't told that. What was said to the press from his hiring, and through camp is that he wouldn't have a roll on game day, and he would be at home games.
jaydog
Football God
Show me where you saw that, please cause I must've missed that.
Martin Eden
Well-known member
It's so hard to find and keep good offensive coordinators. I want an offensive mind at HC.
Masters
Well-known member
"Vrabel will not have a role during game day, something he discussed at length with Stefanski. During the weeks leading up to games, Vrabel will do anything he can to help the players and coaching staff prepare for their upcoming opponent. "
"Vrabel said about his role in training camp.
“There won’t be a role on game day," Vrabel said. "That’s something that we had talked about prior to doing this, which is the right fit for everybody. And so, I’m going to try to do anything that they ask me to do and be available to help throughout the week and then move ahead to the next opponent."
Listen around the 11:45 mark when asked if he would do thing during the season and be on the sidelines
Kevin Stefanski Shouts Praise For New Browns Coach Mike Vrabel
Kevin Stefanski's admiration for Mike Vrabel cannot be understated after this soundbite from Friday.
www.si.com
There are more. From the start it was clear that it was fluid roll based upon Vrabel's availability and his willingness. Which in its self is typical for such a consulting roll. When fired HC who are still being paid by their former team take the rolls they aren't getting paid a lot for them.
This all started to become a story after Vrabel was on the sidelines for the NO game, which was the first time he was there for a road game.
jaydog
Football God
I appreciate the links, btw. I really thought he wasn't supposed to be on the sideline and what you provided helps.
I thought KS said yes to the first question from Eisen, "Is he going to do stuff with you during the season?". KS answered "Yes" over the second part of that two part question, "Is he going to be on the sideline?"
Anyway, it's written in your response, "Vrabel will not have a role during gameday, something he discussed at length with Stefanski".
The SI article seems nice & professional. It underscores the fact that KS never once said anything like they've hung out together prior to this season or their wives are always doing things together.
Not a big deal, but then KS never said he thought about adding a recently fired HC to hang out with him on the sidelines on game day and he chose Vrabel. I sense KS would never say that nor did he ever think of the doing this. I get that people think everything is fine and KS is absolutely ok with Vrabel on the sidelines. Not me. It's fucking weird. It's got to be off putting to coaches and the team. If true it explains why the team is 3-9. If things are just fine and coaches as well as players are copasetic then this team is void of talent and AB has to go. If this situation explains a talented team going 3-9 then KS has to go because the FO undermined him and he has lost credibility.
I wonder how many times this has happened before in the NFL and it went well? Because what could possibly go wrong in this situation?
I thought KS said yes to the first question from Eisen, "Is he going to do stuff with you during the season?". KS answered "Yes" over the second part of that two part question, "Is he going to be on the sideline?"
Anyway, it's written in your response, "Vrabel will not have a role during gameday, something he discussed at length with Stefanski".
The SI article seems nice & professional. It underscores the fact that KS never once said anything like they've hung out together prior to this season or their wives are always doing things together.
Not a big deal, but then KS never said he thought about adding a recently fired HC to hang out with him on the sidelines on game day and he chose Vrabel. I sense KS would never say that nor did he ever think of the doing this. I get that people think everything is fine and KS is absolutely ok with Vrabel on the sidelines. Not me. It's fucking weird. It's got to be off putting to coaches and the team. If true it explains why the team is 3-9. If things are just fine and coaches as well as players are copasetic then this team is void of talent and AB has to go. If this situation explains a talented team going 3-9 then KS has to go because the FO undermined him and he has lost credibility.
I wonder how many times this has happened before in the NFL and it went well? Because what could possibly go wrong in this situation?
Masters
Well-known member
I can only take at face value the comments from the start from Stefanski that it he wanted him and didn't think it would even realistically happen. Such as in late March right after the hiring:
"So when he didn’t have a head coaching job this last cycle, I made sure that he knew that we would love to get him up there in some capacity," Stefanski said at the annual league owner's meeting Monday. "So that was really the beginning of that conversation. But just having him, we had him up there last week, did a great job. He’s a resource. He’s a resource for me. He’s a resource for Andrew and I’m very, very excited to have him.”
www.si.com
Vrabel hire as a consultant (which seemed to be at Stefanski desire first and foremost) simply makes for easy speculative stories by the media, or fans to suddenly read more in to due to the
current record. I understand the linear logic being used for it. The problem is it requires making a lot of other assumptions to make it to be something more significant.
- forced on Stefanski.
- plan to replace Stefanski with Vrabel while still giving Stefanski a multi year extension after bringing in Vrabel as a consultant
- Vrabel roll was set to be smaller, but has increased because of record and FO/ownership direction.
- Vrabel has not been on the sidelines of home games even though he had been.
- a one time former HC of the year brings more clout to the locker room than a two time former HC of the year (Vrabel six year HC record in the AFC South was 4 winning records in 6 years, 54-45 record, 2-3 in the playoffs to Stefanski 2 winning records in 4 years coming in total he season, 40-38 record as of today, 1-2 in the playoffs)
I typically follow Occam's razor theory. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. Stefanski/Berry saw an opportunity on the cheap to get another good football mind in the building for the year, be it for a few hours a week or something far more (up to Vrabel who is getting paid by TEN). Vrabel gets an opportunity to still stay connected to day to day NFL and visibility for next coaching cycle. Nothing more as to why he is with the Browns to begin with.
Big deal now is fans, and then media start talking about it more as losses mount, they know Vrabel is on staff, and get all googly
eyed because he has Ohio roots (as if that
actually matters as to their qualifications). Media knows this, stories generate revenue, Vrabel shows up for first time on sidelines for road game (just there, don't actually know what specifically he is doing) media has opportunity for story which equals clicks. Also aligns with what fans are bar talk speculating.
Being on the sidelines on game day and having an active roll on the sidelines on game day are very different things.
I'd have to look them all up, but the Vrabel situation isn't unusual. Former HC have taken on consultant rolls with other teams, and lessor staff rolls with it ultimately being much ado about nothing. I am sure we can find cases where if the teams season was not good there was similar fan and media speculation around that former HC was some sort of master plan to end up with the job if a, b, and c happen.
There is a reason people buy in to all kinds of different conspiracy theories of any kind. The simple truth is people (fans and media) don't know what Vrabel's actual day to day or game day roll/activity actually is. Just as they don't know what Depodesta's actually roll, responsibility, or influence level is. When there is unknowns creative narratives get generated and believed. Like the old sayings, there's perception and there is reality, as well perception is reality. Right, wrong, or indifferent it's how as a general whole people operate and see the world around them. A kin to if woman dresses like what is perceived as a hoe she therefore is a hoe.
"So when he didn’t have a head coaching job this last cycle, I made sure that he knew that we would love to get him up there in some capacity," Stefanski said at the annual league owner's meeting Monday. "So that was really the beginning of that conversation. But just having him, we had him up there last week, did a great job. He’s a resource. He’s a resource for me. He’s a resource for Andrew and I’m very, very excited to have him.”
Kevin Stefanski Shares What Mike Vrabel Brings To The Browns Staff
It was assumed back in January that Mike Vrabel would be a hot commodity during the NFL's head coach hiring cycle. When the dust settled on another year of can
www.si.com
Vrabel hire as a consultant (which seemed to be at Stefanski desire first and foremost) simply makes for easy speculative stories by the media, or fans to suddenly read more in to due to the
current record. I understand the linear logic being used for it. The problem is it requires making a lot of other assumptions to make it to be something more significant.
- forced on Stefanski.
- plan to replace Stefanski with Vrabel while still giving Stefanski a multi year extension after bringing in Vrabel as a consultant
- Vrabel roll was set to be smaller, but has increased because of record and FO/ownership direction.
- Vrabel has not been on the sidelines of home games even though he had been.
- a one time former HC of the year brings more clout to the locker room than a two time former HC of the year (Vrabel six year HC record in the AFC South was 4 winning records in 6 years, 54-45 record, 2-3 in the playoffs to Stefanski 2 winning records in 4 years coming in total he season, 40-38 record as of today, 1-2 in the playoffs)
I typically follow Occam's razor theory. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. Stefanski/Berry saw an opportunity on the cheap to get another good football mind in the building for the year, be it for a few hours a week or something far more (up to Vrabel who is getting paid by TEN). Vrabel gets an opportunity to still stay connected to day to day NFL and visibility for next coaching cycle. Nothing more as to why he is with the Browns to begin with.
Big deal now is fans, and then media start talking about it more as losses mount, they know Vrabel is on staff, and get all googly
eyed because he has Ohio roots (as if that
actually matters as to their qualifications). Media knows this, stories generate revenue, Vrabel shows up for first time on sidelines for road game (just there, don't actually know what specifically he is doing) media has opportunity for story which equals clicks. Also aligns with what fans are bar talk speculating.
Being on the sidelines on game day and having an active roll on the sidelines on game day are very different things.
I'd have to look them all up, but the Vrabel situation isn't unusual. Former HC have taken on consultant rolls with other teams, and lessor staff rolls with it ultimately being much ado about nothing. I am sure we can find cases where if the teams season was not good there was similar fan and media speculation around that former HC was some sort of master plan to end up with the job if a, b, and c happen.
There is a reason people buy in to all kinds of different conspiracy theories of any kind. The simple truth is people (fans and media) don't know what Vrabel's actual day to day or game day roll/activity actually is. Just as they don't know what Depodesta's actually roll, responsibility, or influence level is. When there is unknowns creative narratives get generated and believed. Like the old sayings, there's perception and there is reality, as well perception is reality. Right, wrong, or indifferent it's how as a general whole people operate and see the world around them. A kin to if woman dresses like what is perceived as a hoe she therefore is a hoe.
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madmadworld
The Official TV Watcher
What is Vrabel really doing ?
Taking notes ? sharing them in "weekly" meetings. does he talk to players/coach them up ? these are the type of boundaries that should've been laid out preseason etc
I have no interest in him being the HC here.
Taking notes ? sharing them in "weekly" meetings. does he talk to players/coach them up ? these are the type of boundaries that should've been laid out preseason etc
I have no interest in him being the HC here.
OconRecon
If you're juiceless, you're useless
What improvement has occurred due to his presence? He may be a good HC, but there is no evidence he has made any impact.
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TheBestPlayersPlay
Die-Hard
I did not feel it was a "strong" show of support. I felt it was lukewarm. He will reassess and look at everything at the end of the season. Maybe that's just me being optimistic. He said he is perplexed that we have only 3 wins. Aren't we all, Jimmy.
And agreed Vrabel hasn't had much of an effect, probably because he is waiting to do that as HC when he takes over.
