Browns - The 2025 hunt for a QB | Page 8 | Barking Hard

Browns The 2025 hunt for a QB

As luck would have it I currently have what I believe to be a torn rotator cuff I'm going to see a surgeon in a few days. I can unequivocally say that my bad right shoulder does not in any way shape or form affect my good left shoulder, it does affect my right arm and elbow and tricep area however my good arm has seen zero ill effect.
I had full right shoulder replacement in May of last year. 7 months in and I'm still struggling. Have you tried throwing a football or swinging a golf club? I promise you a hurt off-shoulder affects all upper body sports movements. And as I posted earlier, Baker is a full body thrower, generates a lot of torque with his upper body. There's no way a broken humorous and a torn labrum in his left shoulder did not affect his accuracy. No fucking way.
 
His QBR was 32nd in 2019 as well.

If you have a clunker of a year in a contract year, it doesn’t help.

Again, the Browns had witnessed him have bad years in two of his last three, and made a decision with the with information available at the time.

QB’s don’t get extensions when they’re at the bottom, 2 of of the most recent 3 years. The Panthers gave a 5th for him, and then he was gone. Rams let him walk too. Then, Baker to his credit righted his ship.

Ftr, a partially torn labrum and a total shoulder replacement are wildly different things. (Full disclosure, I’m a sports med doc, ER doc, and was an athletic trainer. I know these injuries & operations well.)
 
Ray Liotta Laughing GIF
 
His QBR was 32nd in 2019 as well.

If you have a clunker of a year in a contract year, it doesn’t help.

Again, the Browns had witnessed him have bad years in two of his last three, and made a decision with the with information available at the time.

QB’s don’t get extensions when they’re at the bottom, 2 of of the most recent 3 years. The Panthers gave a 5th for him, and then he was gone. Rams let him walk too. Then, Baker to his credit righted his ship.

Ftr, a partially torn labrum and a total shoulder replacement are wildly different things. (Full disclosure, I’m a sports med doc, ER doc, and was an athletic trainer. I know these injuries & operations well.)
I had a torn labrum for a year before shoulder replacement, least of my shoulder issues for sure. Again, I ask you, in all the athletes you treated, were any of them professional or even high school QBs who were able to throw at a high level with a torn labrum and a broken humerous? And you also never answered my assertion that Baker is a full body thrower who generates his power with great torque from his upper body. Does that matter? And are you saying that Baker's injuries played no part in his regression in 2021?

And by the way, Trevor Lawerence had a lower QBR in 2021 and got an extension, just saying.

Carolina let Sam Darnold go too. LA brought Baker in because of Stafford's injuries. They never intended on letting Stafford go and keeping Baker, but you know that.
 
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Baker Mayfield’s Shoulder Injury Severely Impacted His Ability To Throw To His Left In 2021​

Looking through PFF’s passing by depth and direction tool, you are able to get a real sense for where Baker Mayfield was able to maintain his level of play and where it fell off following his injury. In his standout 2020 campaign, Mayfield was a fairly consistent passer to all directions of the field. When throwing to the left, he was 79-of-112 for 1,014 yards while completing 70.54% of his passes and averaging 9.1 yards per attempt.

He threw 10 touchdowns to the left versus just one interception and his big-time throw rate was 8.9% against a turnover worthy play rate of just 1.8%. He also had weighted PFF grade* of 79.0 on throws to that side of the field.

Bucs Qb Baker Mayfield

Bucs QB Baker Mayfield – Photo by: USA Today
When targeting the center of the field, Mayfield was 153-of-208 (73.56% completion rate) for 1,634 yards and seven touchdowns with five interceptions. He averaged 7.9 yards per attempt with a 76.3 weighted PFF grade and six big-time throws to nine turnover worthy plays.

Compare that to his throws to the right side, where he was 73-of-115 for 915 yards. He completed 63.48% of his passes in that direction with a yards per attempt mark of 8.0 with nine touchdowns to two interceptions. His big time throw rate was higher to the right (13.0%), but so was his turnover-worthy play rate (2.9%). Mayfield had a similar weighted PFF grade of 73.3 on those throws.

Not all three of those areas fell off considerably in 2021 due to injury. As a matter of fact, while there was decline when he threw to the center and right, neither was precipitous. In 2021 when targeting receivers to the right, Mayfield completed 64.76% of his passes (68-of-105), which was a bit higher than the year prior.

His 8.4 yards per attempt was also higher. Mayfield’s big-time throw rate was lower at 8.6%, but so was his turnover-worthy play rate (1.9%). His weighted PFF grade fell from 73.3 to 65.4. This was due to a drop-off in his effectiveness throwing deep.

Similarly, Mayfield maintained his completion rate when targeting the middle of the field (72.31%) with an improvement in yards per attempt (8.3) with more touchdowns (10) and interceptions (8).

But the precipitous decline in throws to the left is stark. Baker Mayfield’s completion percentage fell from 70.54% to 51.76%. His yards per attempt fell over three yards to 6.0. His big-time throw rate dropped from 8.9% to 7.1%, while his turnover-worthy play rate ballooned from 1.8% to 5.9%. He also had a 22.2-point drop in weighted PFF grade.

*Weighted PFF Grade is a metric I created by taking the PFF grade assigned to each batch of directional/depth throws and weighting it by the number of attempts within a batch I am trying to define. It is the best I can do to approximate a grade without having knowledge of their proprietary formula. Additionally, the big-time throw and turnover-worthy play rates I calculated by dividing the number of those events by the number of attempts in the referenced situations. These will differ slightly from the rates PFF publishes.

Throwing To The Left With A Torn Left Labrum Is Hard​

I think the above statement is patently obvious as it is also very intuitive. When throwing to his left in 2021, Baker Mayfield had to open his throwing motion and stretch his left shoulder. This would have been very painful and affected his throwing motion and power the most. This was most noticeable when he was targeting intermediate to deep routes (routes of 10 yards or more) that year.

In those situations, he was 13-of-42 for 281 yards with one touchdown to three interceptions. His yards per attempt was a paltry 6.7 with an 11.9% turnover-worthy play rate. Compare that to his career outside of that year in those situations and you will see his completion percentage is 16.55% higher, his yards per attempt is 2.6 higher, his weighted PFF grade is 26.9 points higher and his big-time throw rate is 5.1% higher while his turnover worthy play rate is over 8% lower.
 
What a bunch of rubbish. Do you have any idea how many athletes play with torn labrums? A ton. Again, this is my profession. PFF-ing and googling isn’t a counter-argument, nor is a fan blog. We have no idea how painful it was. Baker has excellent footwork and squares to throw in rhythm.

Now give me a one to explain 2019, and why the Panthers and Rams let him walk.

Actually, don’t bother. Not necessary. All good.
 
What a bunch of rubbish. Do you have any idea how many athletes play with torn labrums? A ton. Again, this is my profession. PFF-ing and googling isn’t a counter-argument, nor is a fan blog. We have no idea how painful it was. Baker has excellent footwork and squares to throw in rhythm.

Now give me a one to explain 2019, and why the Panthers and Rams let him walk.

Actually, don’t bother. Not necessary. All good.
Athletes? Ok, how many QBs? Baker isn't the most gifted guy on the planet. CLEARLY, he played much worse when he was hurt than he did while he was healthy. Perhaps a few guys could have played at their best with this injury, but Baker couldn't. It's so obvious. Stop making excuses for why we gave up on him. It wasn't because of his 2021 stats. It was because someone made a judgment that we were better off paying Watson and giving up three first round draft picks than we were with the draft picks and Baker.

I like Berry and I like Stefanski (for the most part). But unless this was Jimmy's idea, I don't see how one doesn't have to go.

But hey, it could be worse. We get to maybe draft Shedeur and he might be the one. He is at least more mature than Baker was.
 
He's by far the most pro-ready QB coming out. Not sure anyone's going to give the Titans much for that pick. But we need a rookie QB contract, so it's going to be Sanders or Ward for us, 100%.

If Watson's ready, he's the man. Sanders or Ward can sit and learn. If Watson's not ready, hopefully we get Cousins as a placeholder and Sanders or Ward can sit and learn. Either way, we're going QB at 2.
 
He's by far the most pro-ready QB coming out. Not sure anyone's going to give the Titans much for that pick. But we need a rookie QB contract, so it's going to be Sanders or Ward for us, 100%.

If Watson's ready, he's the man. Sanders or Ward can sit and learn. If Watson's not ready, hopefully we get Cousins as a placeholder and Sanders or Ward can sit and learn. Either way, we're going QB at 2.
Or just roll with Jameis...
 
Yeah, that is our luck. And I don't love the idea of "trade back this year and we'll get the QBOF next year", as that necessitates another year of stumbling through and ambivalent hopes.
 
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