It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns | Page 6 | Barking Hard

It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns

Sorry player fans. It's time. Baker Mayfield is an average NFL QB, a future journeyman ...and it's time to look at our options. There are only two QBs in the NFL worse than Baker Mayfield in the 4th quarter. We routinely finish in the bottom half in almost every meaningful passing category. There is nothing at all special about him. I used to think he had an elite arm, but a lot of QBs can throw the ball hard. He can certainly throw it, but how well does he pass it really? High, hard, and behind. Rinse and repeat. A large percentage of his completions go that route as well. He has every single weakness he had coming out of college. Nothing at all has improved. In the NFL he isn't chucking up prayers to NFL caliber WRs being covered by guys who are now checking out your groceries. Baker Mayfield is the 4th best QB in the AFC North. Out of 4 teams.



Last place in the division. Most in here predicted outlandish success this season. 12 wins? 14? Maybe more. This blow-hard thought we would likely have less wins than last season, simply due to a historically easy schedule in 2020. The Browns just lost to a team with no kicker, and a fat QB who likely has lower back problems, and runs about as fast as an arthritic sloth. People are now starting to look for new excuses. The new coach is holding the team back. The WRs drop the ball too much. Mean fans are hurting Emily Mayfield's feelings and it's having an effect on Baker's play. The truth is, there's a bottleneck at the QB position. We have a Superbowl caliber roster, and a QB that is limiting what we can do with it. Baker Mayfield is the best QB we have had in twenty years ....and people are desperate to defend him. I get it.



Against the Steelers on Sunday we witnessed something we try really hard to ignore. Baker throwing high and hard the majority of the game. While throwing from the pocket, Baker not only can't see most of the field, but he throws his trademark bullets high enough to get over the defenders standing between he and his receiver. This just doesn't work, as the trajectory of these bullets leave them high and often behind his mark. A difficult ask of WRs, TEs, and RBs. You'll have player fans on twitter showing slow motion replays of a ball going through Hooper's hand, and calling anyone who dares criticize Baker a "mouth breather", but in reality Hooper was at the top of his jump, arms outstretched to the max, trying to reel in a high, hard, and behind football. Could have easily been a walk in touchdown instead... a bad pass. A QB could normally avoid this by putting some touch on the ball, a little arc, or air under it ....but Baker doesn't seem to have that gear.

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Mayfield throughout his entire career has made a cottage industry of rolling to his right. It seems to be the one thing he is great at. The problem is, when you are a one-trick pony, other teams game-plan to take that trick away from you. Baker has rolled right and attempted to pass a total of 6 times this year. Think about that in relation to each year prior. Teams have forced Baker into the pocket, the Steelers literally dared the Browns to pass practically the entire game. How is it working out?

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Fourth quarter, and another chance to win a game. Most of us knew what was going to happen didn't we? We have held onto hope, praying that the light would go on, that Baker would make wholesale changes, and he would become the Browns franchise QB ...someone we could count on to put the team on his back and lead us to victory with the game on the line. What we have got in reality is a QB that is 33 of 62, with 4 TDs and 5 INTS. Sam Darnold is the only QB as bad as Mayfield with the game on the line since 2018. Mayfield's passing rating with the game on the line is 61.3 and the Browns are 3-11 in these scenarios.

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Kevin Stefanski was hired to reign in Mayfield's erratic tendencies. Stefanski's offense tends to turn average QBs into statistical wonders, (Case Keenum) and perhaps limit some players at certain positions, like a downfield QB and burner WR for example. Some argue that Stefanski has taken Mayfield's gunslinger aura away from him, which while true is also the reason why Baker has become far less prone to interceptions. The dink and dunk offense with numerous screens and TE heavy route trees certainly makes a QB look good on paper at times ...but who is Baker Mayfield without the ability to roll out on play action and plant bombs down the field? Certainly these are often 50/50 bombs, but they do add to what an opposing defense has to worry about. Mayfield has 10 completions of 20 or more yards this season ...20th in the league. Recall Stefon Diggs having the same issue that OBJ is currently having in the Stefanski offense. He moved on to the Bills and is back to all-pro form. I suspect OBJ will do the same for some other team.

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In short, we have no vertical passing attack, while employing one of the very best WR tandems in the game, and one of the fastest WRs in the league in Schwartz. Did the Browns hire the right coach? If you believe analytics and going by the book is usually right, then yes. If you believe in coaches who base decisions on the ebb and flow of the game, their "gut" as it were, then no. We are the worst team in the league at going for it on 4th down. Analytics got us there.

We could have had Canton native and lifelong Browns fan Josh McDaniels.

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So where are we now? A Superbowl caliber roster, with an extremely limited QB, and a coach who can only go by the book, apparently not capable of harnessing whatever "elite" trait Mayfield may have, if he has one at all. Playoffs this season ...not likely. Our Superbowl window is open for only a short while ...without the Browns front office doing something extremely out of character (see, ballsy) like going after a Watson, Wilson, or Rogers ...I don't see us going anywhere.

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(yes another QB thread)
 
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lets not pine for past unrequited love. Its just depressing. hoyer,allen and wilson are all gone and wont be back.
(wilson? yeah we passed on him for weeden) so what the fu&k do we do now?
who is that wonderkid in the draft we can scoop? we pay baker for a 5th year sure but we also draft a 1st rd QB to sit behind him.
I like the idea of a mobile QB in this div. come on guys fire up those draft sim sites. gimme some insight.
plenty of NCAA teams have come from nowhere this year to be ranked. come on you maniacs,who do you got?



desmond riddler
 
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^^^Good question. I get the vibe that there is something going on with the overall chemistry. Garrett calling out the defensive play calling is a big tell. Landry was non-existent and maybe is a "state-of-mind" along with others in the WR room. Something feels like a mutiny here to me. But, I am not ready to believe that Baker or KS as a whole are the problem. One or the other may be disgruntled at the other, but both seem capable being good players/coaches with this roster. I hope we find out what the problem is.
 
we have our best team since kosar was here. credit where its due,they are doing their best to win IMO
the FO is not the problem. If baker was herbert? or jones? or hell even murray? we are contenders for a SB.
agent 86 - "missed by that much"
Horseshit. Our defense is not playoff caliber much less super bowl caliber. Three 90 plus yard drives given up to the mediocre at best best Patriot offense. Baker, without question, is having a rough year. Mainly, in my opinion, because of his tackle attempt against the Texans. But our defense has sucked against every team we've played this year with a decent offense, and padded its stats against Chicago when they started a rookie QB for the first time.

We do have talent on defense, but Joe Woods needs to be fired TODAY.
 
I said pre injury. Even as is, I bet Hoyer would win more games with this roster than Baker has. I bet most high level backups would.
Please. You are out of touch with reality. Baker is hurt and has been since game 2. It has, without question, affected his accuracy, timing, and mobility. The issues with this team are way more than QB. So what's your answer? Dump Baker and draft a rookie to lead this roster?

First, we have to get the defense fixed; ISSUE #1. Second, we have to decide if Baker is good enough to lead the team for the foreseeable future. If we don't think Baker can do it, I see one option that would make us SB contenders (if we can fix the defense -- FIRE JOE WOODS), even though I don't like it, trade for Watson. Send Baker and whatever else we need to Houston for him.

Right now, besides getting Baker healthy, we need to get Jarvis healthy too. He is obviously not right, and he is the key to our passing game.
 
Please. You are out of touch with reality. Baker is hurt and has been since game 2. It has, without question, affected his accuracy, timing, and mobility. The issues with this team are way more than QB. So what's your answer? Dump Baker and draft a rookie to lead this roster?

First, we have to get the defense fixed; ISSUE #1. Second, we have to decide if Baker is good enough to lead the team for the foreseeable future. If we don't think Baker can do it, I see one option that would make us SB contenders (if we can fix the defense -- FIRE JOE WOODS), even though I don't like it, trade for Watson. Send Baker and whatever else we need to Houston for him.

Right now, besides getting Baker healthy, we need to get Jarvis healthy too. He is obviously not right, and he is the key to our passing game.
I stunningly agree with everything you said other than the Baker is hurt excuse. Dude always has an excuse. We saw him display zero symptoms of injury against the Bengals. Sorry, not buying it. If he was that bad, he would be sitting. And of course I am never out of touch with reality, I am in fact a realist which goes decidedly against the grain of a fanboi mentality. I have repeatedly said my answer is to move mountains to get Watson, Wilson, or Rogers. They all would take this team to the Superbowl ...no question. Fire Joe Woods too, we are already a season late on that. A good DC and top 5 QB ..we are a juggernaut.
 
We do have talent on defense, but Joe Woods needs to be fired TODAY.
thats you're response to me? are you kidding? I never wanted him here from the day he was hired. LMFAO
Ive been complaining about our D since game 1 vs the chiefs.this game should have been close.It wasnt because we scored 7.
the D can be fixed (by removing woods) but baker cannot.yes we keep baker for the 5th year but also draft a rd 1 QB
you're a baker apologist, thats fine but eventually you will touch reality just like the woods apologists have..matter of time
KS with a different QB?
If he had herbert as a QB do you really think his playcalling would be the same? no chance. we'd be 65% shotgun
both seem capable being good players/coaches with this roster. I hope we find out what the problem is.
well jeez sherlock, baker is good, good aint gonna get it done with our schedule. number 1 overall shouldnt be "good" should be franchise.
KS? dont throw the baby out with the bath water..
 
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thats you're response to me? are you kidding? I never wanted him here from the day he was hired. LMFAO
Ive been complaining about our D since game 1 vs the chiefs.this game should have been close.It wasnt because we scored 7.
the D can be fixed (by removing woods) but baker cannot.yes we keep baker for the 5th year but also draft a rd 1 QB
you're a baker apologist, thats fine but eventually you will touch reality just like the woods apologists have..matter of time

No, my response to you is that we do not have a Super Bowl caliber defense, and no matter who our QB is, giving up three 90+ yard drives to a mediocre at best NE offense does not denote a good roster or coach.

P.S. Myles Garrett is a dog. He's good for a sack a game and perhaps one more tackle. NE exploited his lazy ass repeatedly. But the media loves him, so he's going to get league defensive MVP. What a joke.
 
giving up three 90+ yard drives to a mediocre at best NE offense does not denote a good roster
We do have talent on defense
you're a baker or bust guy and have been from day 1. good for you.commit. I was too. until the evidence became overwhelming.
Im afraid the answer is..bust. you'll come around but hell,It dont get much more obvious than that. 73 yards.

now If we had a top 5 D and our running game rolling could we win with a game manager QB? Its a possibility.right schedule? sure.
I had much higher expectations for our #1 overall slinger an we can still keep baker
that should not preclude us from drafting a rd 1 QB this year as well. why not?
so he's going to get league defensive MVP. What a joke.
MG's our best player. both sides hands down. bakers not the problem its MG? good lord. a bit delusional there? heavy drinker?
rhetorical question. of course you're a heavy drinker, you're a browns fan on the BH forum!

It wont be fun or easy but make yourself watch this. Its therapy. you're welcome.

 
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Yeah, us and every other team in the NFL.
Hmmm. Mr. "Oh look it's one of those guys who believes only the QB matters" is contradicting his usual talking points. So you believe every NFL team with a good DC and a top 5 QB is a juggernaut? So a top 5 level QB can carry an offense is what you just said. And roster talent on defense doesn't matter as much as the DC apparently. 🤷
 
No, my response to you is that we do not have a Super Bowl caliber defense, and no matter who our QB is, giving up three 90+ yard drives to a mediocre at best NE offense does not denote a good roster or coach.
we scored 7 points. are you suggesting our D should have held the pats to 6 points in NE for the win?
even If our D had a great day and allowed 20 or less? Its still a loss to a .500 team.with a rookie QB and HB.
Its difficult to pin point problems in football but you have to thank god when its so obvious. tua>baker at least he can run.

you say "hes hurt" ok how did he get hurt sparky? oh he risked the entire CB franchise to play tough guy and tackle a 200+ pound S?
so you could look cool on ESPN for your girlfriend? you got lit up and made a fool of instead. would that upset you If you were a WR?
we are relying on baker to pull this team out of the gutter and he plays it off like its "one of those things" you think landry was happy?
all balls and no brains is great If you play D! or in baltimore LOL but not for a QB in the NFL
would I take tua over baker? YES right now yes I would. at least we could RPO that bit&h and have a plan B for our 1 trick OFF.
 
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Hmmm. Mr. "Oh look it's one of those guys who believes only the QB matters" is contradicting his usual talking points. So you believe every NFL team with a good DC and a top 5 QB is a juggernaut? So a top 5 level QB can carry an offense is what you just said. And roster talent on defense doesn't matter as much as the DC apparently. 🤷
Decent talent is important, without question. But I think right now we are the poster child for the need for a good DC. Our roster on "D" should be so much better it's ridiculous, and obviously, I'm not just talking about lazy-ass.

Top 5 QB and good DC, yeah. . . you're probably a contender. That doesn't mean a team like ours, heavy run, play action, decent QB can't beat those guys with the top 5. NEWSFLASH: there are only 5 of them.

Personally, I love watching Chubb and Hunt tear it up. We have quite a few rushing TDs. I'd rather get one rushing than passing, but both are important.

And we have to have a good QB. Whatever you want to say about Baker, it is true that he had a very good second half of the season last year and played really well against Pittsburgh and KC in the playoffs. Playing like he did at the end of the season last year makes me think he could be the guy. But you know my opinion since the Viking game has been that we should shut him down and let him get healthy. He has shown flashes of decency (SD and Cinn), but overall he's just simply not the same with the fucked up left shoulder.

Perhaps you are right and this is what Baker will be from now on. Perhaps I'm right and the kid is better than he's playing now.
Perhaps the Browns will give up on him and seek a vet to lead us to glory.

We will see. I, of course, am pulling for him, but have never said he is without question our guy.
 
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