Browns - The 2025 hunt for a QB | Page 21 | Barking Hard

Browns The 2025 hunt for a QB

It’s easy to oversimplify and say that play-action alone causes a QB to hold onto the ball longer or increases time to throw. However, that’s not always the case.

PFF identified one of Baker Mayfield’s weaknesses out of college as holding onto the ball too long, and that was an individual tendency, not offense-dependent.

But back to play-action. Baker's offense under Lincoln Riley was a quick, tempo offense and the play-action they ran wasn't simply true, under center play-action (vary rare). Riley's true play action was not from under center, but was RPO based or out of the shotgun/pistol. True, under center play action, although ran, was very rare in Riley's offense when Baker was playing QB. Very rare.

Why is this important?

RPO Play action has a much, much faster release and is typically meant to get the ball out in 1.5-2.5 seconds. There is very little 'drop back' and the routes are shorter. It's the fastest form of play-action with the shortest time to throw.

Shotgun/Pistol Play action, the QB is already in position and doesn't have to turn his back to the defense. Depending on if it's a dump off or deep shot, the ball should be out in 2-3 seconds.

Traditional, under center play-action is where the TTT is very affected by the play calling. 3-4 seconds is typical to get the ball out. This was very rarely ran in Riley's offense with Baker. Very rarely.

Sanders ran a pro-style offense. He couldn't run play action because 1) His OL was too bad and couldn't block 2) he had no running game to keep the defense honest.

Sanders also had to process defenses faster than Baker out of necessity...he didn’t have the luxury of playing behind the #1 pass-blocking offensive line in college football, as Baker did. Even with that advantage, Baker still held onto the ball too long and took 11 sacks credited to him, not his OL.

It’s easy to run an offense on time when everything around you is elite. When it’s not, quick processing and decision-making become essential.
I see a lot of talk that Sanders took sacks rather than throw incompletions. He definitely held on to the ball too long a lot. I don't buy he was trying to pad his completion % stats. But Baker has proven PFF wrong. He doesn't hold onto the ball too long.

Very few would list Sanders as a better prospect than Baker coming out in the draft.

I really like Sanders and think he has every chance to be as good an NFL QB as Mayfield. If he works hard.
 
I see a lot of talk that Sanders took sacks rather than throw incompletions. He definitely held on to the ball too long a lot. I don't buy he was trying to pad his completion % stats. But Baker has proven PFF wrong. He doesn't hold onto the ball too long.

Very few would list Sanders as a better prospect than Baker coming out in the draft.

I really like Sanders and think he has every chance to be as good an NFL QB as Mayfield. If he works hard.

Most didn't think Jayden Daniels was a better prospect than Caleb Williams
Most didn't think Lamar Jackson was a better prospect than Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen and Baker Mayfield
Most didn't think Russell Wilson was a better prospect than Ryan Tannehill.

I can go on-and-on about what "most think". Most aren't too bright.

Sanders is a better prospect with more elite qualities than Mayfield. HOWEVER, the caveat is that he, like most QB's have to go to the right situation, with the right coach and system. Cleveland is that system. It took Mayfield 7 years, 4 teams and many OC's to actually be really good - and - he still only has 1 play off win in 7 years to show for it. Sanders can eclipse that.
 
Most didn't think Jayden Daniels was a better prospect than Caleb Williams
Most didn't think Lamar Jackson was a better prospect than Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen and Baker Mayfield
Most didn't think Russell Wilson was a better prospect than Ryan Tannehill.

I can go on-and-on about what "most think". Most aren't too bright.

Sanders is a better prospect with more elite qualities than Mayfield. HOWEVER, the caveat is that he, like most QB's have to go to the right situation, with the right coach and system. Cleveland is that system. It took Mayfield 7 years, 4 teams and many OC's to actually be really good - and - he still only has 1 play off win in 7 years to show for it. Sanders can eclipse that.
Baker has two playoff wins in three playoff seasons (more than Watson). And Baker has been a top 10 NFL QB each of the last two years. No QBs are the same. Some take longer to get it than others. It's hard to compare which player is a better prospect across multiple drafts. A lot of people had Daniels over Williams. Few thought Tannehill would ever be a franchise QB. Only TBPP thought Rosen was better than anyone ;).
 
Baker has two playoff wins in three playoff seasons (more than Watson). And Baker has been a top 10 NFL QB each of the last two years. No QBs are the same. Some take longer to get it than others. It's hard to compare which player is a better prospect across multiple drafts. A lot of people had Daniels over Williams. Few thought Tannehill would ever be a franchise QB. Only TBPP thought Rosen was better than anyone ;).

Literally nobody had Daniels over Williams. Williams was the consensus #1 pick.

As a matter of fact, nobody had Daniels over Maye. Williams and Maye were the consensus 1 & 2 in last year’s draft.

Rosen was a consensus 2-3 QB in their draft. Darnold, Allen & Rosen were 1-3 in most ‘experts’ rankings. I actually posted all of them in a Twitter chat to prove it the other day because revisionists like to pretend Baker was thought of as the Top QB that year. Baker was anywhere from 3-4.

Baker is a nice story, but 1 playoff in is probably his ceiling.
 
A New York Giants move to #1 for Shedeur Sanders is looking like a real possibility.

In a lot of ways, this Draft is so reminiscent of '16. We reportedly were hoping to draft Jared Goff, but the Titans traded back, leaving us with Wentz who, as DePodesta later revealed, was not a QB we felt could be built around.

I don't know if Berry feels that way about Cam Ward, and the buzz has yet to build for Sanders, but I'm really starting to think it's coming.
 
So your assertion is that since it would be hard to win the AFC North because of Burrow and Lamar, we should throw away any QB that is only good and suck until we find one of the top 5 NFL QBs?

Last I checked, we regularly beat the Ravens and Bengals no matter who our QB is.
Not that broadly. But I am contending that a matured Baker is still only good enough to be a .500 or a bit above team with no real chance unless they are the exceptions for a year with the great other phase which carries a team to a SB/SB victory. In which from a swinging for a tractor QB instead of a trailer QB stand point you are better off to be drafting top 5 than regularly sitting mid teens with little to know shot at the tractor QB. Stuck in mediocracy is NFL purgatory.

I say this from the perspective of the first, second, and third priority is to legitimately be contending for a title every year. As a long suffering Browns fan there is that part of me which would be happy to say the Browns were in playoff contention every year, and that would be acceptable. But that is only because of how bad they have mostly been since 1999. Its lowered expectations
 
Baker has two playoff wins in three playoff seasons (more than Watson). And Baker has been a top 10 NFL QB each of the last two years. No QBs are the same. Some take longer to get it than others. It's hard to compare which player is a better prospect across multiple drafts. A lot of people had Daniels over Williams. Few thought Tannehill would ever be a franchise QB. Only TBPP thought Rosen was better than anyone ;).
You're lying again. Shep liked Rosen more than anyone and he managed to get me in board his hype train. I originally was salivating over Josh Allen, but the plebs here talked me out of it because he had a bunch of screws holding his bones together. I remember absolutely gushing when Allen broke the wonderlic record on top of being an adonis.I also got harassed for asking how Lamar Jackson was worse than Baker Mayfield. I was blasted by a self proclaimed QB expert who told me Jackson's only chance to make it in the NFL was as a WR.

But yah. Rosen flamed out big time. Even I am occasionally wrong. I love that people keep having to go back that far though to find something. Good stuff.

The Clowns will get exactly what they deserve if they draft Sanders. Sadly, the fans will just get more suffering.

I think we are making a play for Rodgers or Lawrence. The only 2 guys that might save Stefanski's career. Maybe Cousins if healthy. Stefanski can't get along with any alpha types. No way Sanders works under Stefanski. Zero chance. Take it to the bank.
 
Nobody had Daniels over Williams. Literally nobody. I can posted every predraft QB ranking out there....you won't find one.
Orlovsky, Dan: "However, ESPN analyst Dan Orlovsky was rocking with Daniels -- also a Heisman winner -- from the get-go, explaining why he would select the former LSU star No. 1 overall on an episode of 'Get Up!' back in February 2024."

There's one.

That said, there's no guarantee in the long run that Daniels ends up being better than Willaims.
 
You're lying again. Shep liked Rosen more than anyone and he managed to get me in board his hype train. I originally was salivating over Josh Allen, but the plebs here talked me out of it because he had a bunch of screws holding his bones together. I remember absolutely gushing when Allen broke the wonderlic record on top of being an adonis.I also got harassed for asking how Lamar Jackson was worse than Baker Mayfield. I was blasted by a self proclaimed QB expert who told me Jackson's only chance to make it in the NFL was as a WR.

But yah. Rosen flamed out big time. Even I am occasionally wrong. I love that people keep having to go back that far though to find something. Good stuff.

The Clowns will get exactly what they deserve if they draft Sanders. Sadly, the fans will just get more suffering.

I think we are making a play for Rodgers or Lawrence. The only 2 guys that might save Stefanski's career. Maybe Cousins if healthy. Stefanski can't get along with any alpha types. No way Sanders works under Stefanski. Zero chance. Take it to the bank.
Well... at least now you admit you wanted Rosen, even if it was Shep's fault. lol.
 
Listening to Mike Mayock on the Rich Eisen Show give his take on Cam Ward's angry response to the question of his incomplete final game (skipped 2nd half).

I'm like, really? This is what is always dumb about draft season. Nitpicking this and that, when all I heard was a young man so offended about what is being insinuated with that question.

Ya, maybe the kid can use a little more polish, a little more media training, in the future, but for what really matters, it doesn't get much better than that.

You want a player so offended by any suggestion that they quit on their team or that they don't have "it" that maybe the response isn't perfect. Maybe a few "mistakes" were made in anger. But, to me, it's perfect. We've had too many come and go from Cleveland, leaving us wondering if they actually gave a F.

Here's Cam Ward's response to the question of why he only played the 1st Half in the Bowl Game if you haven't heard:

“Okay, you’re either going to draft me or you’re not,” Ward said Monday night before receiving the Davey O’Brien Award as the nation’s top college quarterback. “If you don’t draft me, that’s your fault. You’ve got to remember you’re the same team that’s got to play me for the rest of my career, and I’ll remember that.”

“I just think we all got what we needed out of it. They seen things that they think they need to work on ... for this season coming up. And they also knew, you know, what I had on the line,” Ward said. “We feel like we’re doing what’s best for the program and myself. I mean, it was a hard decision, especially when, you know, some guys on our team didn’t play who I thought should have played. It was also, you know, those guys thought about their future the same way I thought about mine.”

“If I could do it again, I’d do it the same way,” Ward said Monday, though he later added, “I wish we could have ended up winning the game. If we had won the game, they wouldn’t have said nothing. And so that’s usually how it goes. And, you know, you just got to take it on the chin and just keep pushing."
 
“Shedeur Sanders to the Browns: New Browns offensive coordinator Tommy Rees has made it clear that his ideal quarterback is a sharp decision-maker. Sanders posted a 61.3% success rate on non-screen throws in under 2.5 seconds — the highest mark in the 2025 draft class — demonstrating his ability to make quick, effective decisions.”

So, PFF has Sanders at 42 on their big board, behind EIGHT edge players.
In 2017, Pat Mahomes was at 29 on their big board, behind Trubisky, Watson, and SEVEN edge players.

KC traded-up, and took the QB at 8. That's how you swing at a QB. You go for it until you hit on it.

 
“Shedeur Sanders to the Browns: New Browns offensive coordinator Tommy Rees has made it clear that his ideal quarterback is a sharp decision-maker. Sanders posted a 61.3% success rate on non-screen throws in under 2.5 seconds — the highest mark in the 2025 draft class — demonstrating his ability to make quick, effective decisions.”

So, PFF has Sanders at 42 on their big board, behind EIGHT edge players.
In 2017, Pat Mahomes was at 29 on their big board, behind Trubisky, Watson, and SEVEN edge players.

KC traded-up, and took the QB at 8. That's how you swing at a QB. You go for it until you hit on it.



KC took the swing and won big. They didn't draft a non-generational DL or WR and play the bargain QB game.

BTW: Let's look at some QB rankings from the "experts" in that 2017 NFL Draft:

Brucky Brooks (NFL.Com)
1) DeShone Kizer
2) Mitch Trubisky
3) Deshaun Watson
4) Davis Webb
5 Patrick Mahomes

Lance Zierlein (NFL.Com)
1) Mitch Trubisky
2) Deshaun Watson
3) Patrick Mahomes
4) Nathan Peterman
5) DeShone Kizer

Walter Football
1) Mitch Trubisky
2) Deshaun Watson
3) Patrick Mahomes
4) DeShone Kizer
5) Davis Webb

Mel Kiper (ESPN)
1) Mitch Trubisky
2) Patrick Mahomes
3) Deshaun Watson
4) Nathan Peterman
5) DeShone Kizer

Todd McShay (ESPN)
1) Mitch Trubisky
2) Deshaun Watson
3) DeShone Kizer
4) Patrick Mahomes
5) Davis Webb

Joel Klatt (Fox Sports)
1)DeShone Kizer
2)Deshaun Watson
3) Mitch Trubisky
4) Brad Kaaya
5) Chad Kelly

Tom Fornelli (CBS Sports)
1) Mitchel Trubisky
2) Patrick Mahomes
3) Cooper Rush
4) Nathan Peterman
5) Chad Kelly

Sports Illustrated
1) Deshaun Watson
2) Patrick Mahomes
3) DeShone Kizer
4) Mitchell Trubisky
5) Brad Kaaya

Daniel Jeremiah (NFL.com)
1) DeShone Kizer
2) Mitchel Trubisky
3) Deshaun Watson
4) DeShone Kizer
- Only Ranked 50 prospects. Mahomes not in top 50.

Common Themes:
- Mahommes not considered Top QB.
- Mahomes Top 2 in 3 of 9 experts rankings
- Mahomes Top 3 in 4 of 9 experts rankings


Interesting evaluations of Mahomes.

Weaknesses:
Can be inconsistent in his approach. Needs to play inside the offense and show more discipline. Too eager to go big game hunting. Ravenous appetite for the explosive play can also bring unwanted trouble. Willingness to default to playground style appears to limit his ability to get into a consistent rhythm. Needs to improve anticipatory reads and learn to take what the defense gives him. Decision making can go from good to bad in a moment's notice. Operates from a narrow base and allows his upper body and arm to race ahead of his feet. Has a dip and wind-up in his standard release. Explosive delivery and follow-through causes some throws to sail. Needs better touch on intermediate and deep balls. Carries ball a little low in the pocket. Impatient. Will leave pocket prematurely rather than standing in and winning in rhythm. Better as a scrambler than pure runner. Looked a little less mobile in the open field this season.

Throwning velocity (for later):

- Josh Allen - 62 mph
- Kirk Cousins - 59 mph
- Baker Mayfield - 59 mph
- Jared Goff - 58 mph
- Patrick Mahomes: 55 mph
- CJ Stround: 54 mph
- Lamar Jackson: 49 mph
 
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