The " Book It " thread! | Page 35 | Barking Hard

The " Book It " thread!

The sooner we
Treat this like a bad flu the better we’re gonna be in the long run.

Common sense wash your hands and stay home if
Your sick.

Masks are a joke
Social distancing is a farce.

Let’s try common sense. It’s worked better than anything else.
Never in history have we quarantined the healthy.
 
This is always preferred. yet the bean counters. when it's recommended. so

Years ago I lived with a friend for about 2 years. for a experiment twice when we got a bug/flu we tried HARD not to pass it. both times it worked, while living in the same house. with HVAC on daily,3000 sq ft home. so we did have room to stay out of our own faces a bit yet not totally. he or I would open a outside door when we got close to each other etc. it was as much fun one could have with sickness.

I think this virus is just very easy to pass. I wonder if it has a high/higher reproducing rate, than others. I'm no expert.

Or do the northerners have more herd than southerners ?

I think that might be possible with respect to New York and New Jersey. If you look at the graphs for New York and New Jersey, you see a remarkable similarity with Spain and Italy.

Compare:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/

and

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-jersey/

with

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

and

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

In each case, you have a quick rise to a peak after which there is a slower decline to some nominal amount of cases which continue seemingly into perpetuity.

According to the CDC. The actual number of people who have been infected with the Coronvirus is about 10 times the reported number. This assessment is based on blood samples across the country for the presence of antibodies to the virus, not just from people who have had antibody testing but also from testing performed on donated blood at blood banks or from other laboratory testing of blood.

Assuming a 10X factor, both New York and New Jersey would have about a fifth to their populations with antibody protection. But that number might be even larger in certain areas considering that the 10X factor would not be spread evenly just as the reported numbers are not spread evenly. Presumably most of the reported cases (other than those in nursing homes) would be in the more densely populated sections of the cities and among the ones most traveled on subways and airplanes.

So I think it might be possible for New York and New Jersey.

But I would doubt it in the cases of Minnesota, Illinois and Michigan. It doesn't appear to me that they have had enough cases to get herd immunity. I think that they just simply turned off the heaters that recirculated the air in their homes and places of business and opened the windows.
 
Viral load

Don't recall sharing this
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1443

This is the kinda info you would need a pro to ask questions of.

Is it possible to get a low Viral load and then get a positive test on say Monday then test negative Tues & Wed ?

If you get Low Viral loads multiple times(semi daily) is it possible to get antibodies ?

Among many other questions. I know in order to get a full blown case one must get xxxx number of virus"germs" while getting xx number of virus"germs" will not get one sick.

Must say I don't trust the powers that be giving us ALL the truth in these times. but still
This shit is heavy lol
 
Fact checking LOL

The sooner we
Treat this like a bad flu the better we’re gonna be in the long run.
We still have no idea. but it may take a Long time. dam commies

Common sense wash your hands and stay home if
Your sick.

Let’s try common sense. It’s worked better than anything else.
Never in history have we quarantined the healthy.
This is right.

Masks are a joke
Social distancing is a farce.
That is just wrong

Social distancing 20 feet or more outside. always check wind direction. lol ....but true
 
I am definitely not saying this isn’t a deadly virus.

But with all the statistics being twisted to suit whatever your agenda is, you’ve got to wonder why all of a sudden is government so concerned with our health. Oh yeah, the overcrowding of hospitals. But then that changed also.

When you have your population so scared they drive around by themselves in a closed car with a mask on you know the message has been skewed.
DeWine is drunk with power and can’t see anything but an invisible monster. He’s convinced himself that he’s Ohios only chance.....
 
CDC Antibody Study: Number Infected by COVID-19 in State 6 Times Higher Than Reported

https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=26868&publicId=395

COVID-19 immunity from antibodies may last only months, UK study suggests
Jul 14, 2020
“We show that IgM and IgA binding responses decline after 20-30 days,” the researchers from institutions in the United Kingdom wrote in the paper, which also found that the severity of Covid-19 symptoms can determine the magnitude of the antibody response.

The new study included samples collected from 65 patients with confirmed Covid-19 up to 94 days after they started showing symptoms and from 31 health care workers who had antibody tests every one to two weeks between March and June.
https://wreg.com/news/covid-19-immunity-from-antibodies-may-last-only-months-uk-study-suggests/
 
Lately I have been giving some additional thought to the possibility that we may be nearing the point of herd immunity in certain areas of the country. It appears from the charts that new reported cases for the states of Arizona, Texas and Florida are finally headed downward. If they are truly headed downward as it appears they are, my guess is that it is mainly due to herd immunity. The charts for each of those states may be accessed from links on the following page:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Here is the argument:

About a month ago, on June 25, Dr. Robert Redfield, director of CDC, indicated that antibody testing has indicated that for every case that was reported, there were actually 10 other infections that had not been reported. At that time, about 2.4 million cases had been reported which means, according to the analysis, that 24 million Americans had contracted the disease.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattpe...-than-are-diagnosed-cdc-reports/#3196f0707293

Recently, a larger study has been released that essentially confirms the earlier study on which Dr. Redfield based his statement. This study, as well as the earlier study, is somewhat dated, however, in that it is based on residual clinical specimens collected between March 23 to May 12. A link to the study is given below:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2768834

Obviously, the study is valid only for the period in which the specimens were collected. Since then, the number of tests for the coronavirus has increased significantly. Back in May, the US was performing about 300,000 tests per day whereas now, we are performing about 750,000 tests per day. But the number of reported cases has almost tripled from about 26,000 to almost 72,000 per day. It is clear that testing cannot account for most of the increase in the number of new cases particularly since we are doing more repeat testing than we were back then.

Thus it might seem plausible to assume that the increase in testing has probably not significantly affected the ratio of reported cases to actual cases. Perhaps therefore, we can assume as many as 40 million Americans may have now been infected with the coronavirus.

This works out to about 12% of the population with prior infection and the question arises: what is the proportion of the population that must have had prior infection in order for the country to experience herd immunity?

Models assuming homogeneous distribution of immunity have typically put the herd immunity level for the coronavirus at around 60 percent. Homogeneous distribution of immunity is considered appropriate in the case of a vaccine since vaccines tend to spread the immunity evenly throughout society.

There is, of course, considerable distance between 12% and 60%. However, the percentage may be reduced if a heterogeneous basis is assumed since a heterogeneous basis considers how people mix or connect within a population.

The percentage in a heterogeneous model may be lower since some members of a population will be less likely to be infected with virus whether due to circumstance or behavior. People who work at home are about as likely to seek vaccination as people who travel to work via a subway system.

But in the case of people gaining the immunity via disease, people who travel to work on a subway system are much more likely to be infected than people working from home or traveling by private car to work. The threshold for herd immunity is lower because behavior affects how the disease may spread in the population. Some modelers have used 43% in heterogeneous models. Others such as Gabriela Gomes of The University of Strathclyde have used 20% as the threshold for herd immunity.

https://thehill.com/changing-americ...-herd-immunity-happens-and-will-it-protect-us

But even 20% is some distance from 12%.

However, two things must be noted. The actual percentage for effective herd immunity is not known. Some modelers may have a better understanding of it than others, but they are all guessing. Second, the effects of herd immunity are not suddenly felt within a given population when a certain percentage is arrived at. Its effects are gradually acquired. And regardless, it appears that there are example in which certain populations have gained herd immunity with relatively low percentages. Sweden appears to be an example.

Sweden has been heavily criticized for not doing enough to prevent the spread of the virus. However, if one looks at the graph for new cases in Sweden and checks the 7 day running average checkbox, one will notice that the 7 day moving average for new cases in Sweden have fallen from 1,123 on June 29 to 249 on July 22. Furthermore, number of new cases appears to be headed further downward. Also, the number of deaths have fallen from 95 per day in mid-April to 3 per day. The chart is found at the following address:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

What did the Swedes do to achieve this result?

Apparently nothing except to allow the disease to take its course. They encouraged social distancing and the wearing of facial coverings, but they mandated neither. They never closed the bars and restaurants. They never shut down other businesses. Presumably, some people stayed at home due to fear of the virus, but the government mandated nothing.

The Swedes did, of course, have an advantage. They were off the beaten path. Unlike other European cites, Stockholm is not a major international travel hub. As a result there was no significant infusion of outside travelers. Thus they never had much more than a thousand reported new cases per day. Deaths maxed out at less than a hundred and continued to dwindle with time.

So what is the percentage that achieved herd immunity in Sweden?

Well, Sweden has a population of about 10.1 million people and they have had a total of 78,500 reported cases as of yesterday which yields 0.77%. If it is assumed that Sweden had an actual 10 cases for each one reported, that would yield 7.7%

One may guess that the percentage of bar patrons and regular restaurant goers who have been infected with the virus is much higher than 7.7%, however.
 
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I’m not trusting any of the numbers being spewed out.

Things are being twisted and adjusted for whatever narrative fits the bill on that day.

Wash your hands and stay away from sick people, you know....common sense stuff.

DeWine is an idiot, talk about not having a thought of his own....
 
Herd Immunity

I am too much like Mr Hammer here.

I take more stock in pre Covid words more than post Coivd. Herd Immunity number has seemed pretty high in the past 80 -95%.(60-70%) lately.
Cliff even taking your numbers 7 months to get to 12% it would take wildfire spreading to gain herd by 2022.

this
Sweden hoped herd immunity would curb COVID-19. Don't do what we did. It's not working.
Regardless of whether herd immunity is a goal or a side effect of the Swedish strategy, how has it worked out? Not so well, according to the agency’s own test results. The proportion of Swedes carrying antibodies is estimated to be under 10%,(7.3%) thus nowhere near herd immunity. And yet, the Swedish death rate is unnerving. Sweden has a death toll greater than the United States: 556 deaths per million inhabitants, compared with 425, as of July 20.
 
Covid life or lack thereof

One thing for sure. I never planed for a pandemic. yet been very busy the past 6+ months planing. staying home for near 2 months. but had to go out the past 2 months. for food it's just too hot here for delivery, if you want frozen foods. I've used a cooler(s) with reusable ice packets since moving here. do it in the winter just not to break my routine. Thank God for curbside pick up. Genius

In the past I mostly wasn't a people watcher (other than nice looking women had radar). but now I can't stop, being out it's like being at the Zoo. He touched that then his face ! even people waiting for curbside pick up, then when their food comes get right up on the store person. meanwhile I am checking wind direction at all times.

It's not easy trying to do EVERYTHING to stay safe. but shutting down stuff is no answer. people under 40 in good health need to be set free of all this lockdown crap. then it would be up to them to stay away from older people. of coarse it will not be possible for all to do this. being poor sucks again.

Those commies must pay
 
I’m not trusting any of the numbers being spewed out.

Things are being twisted and adjusted for whatever narrative fits the bill on that day.

Wash your hands and stay away from sick people, you know....common sense stuff.

DeWine is an idiot, talk about not having a thought of his own....

DeWine has a problem. It is all relative, of course, but he is the governor of a state where the 7 day average for the number of new cases per day has increased from about 385 the middle of June to about 1300 per day for the past week. Furthermore, the number of deaths seems to be increasing; the seven day average is back up to 22 per day.

As noted above, the number of new cases seems to have leveled off during the past week, but in a state of 11.7 million people, these are concerning numbers. I think you should give his some slack for his concern.
 
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Sweden hoped herd immunity would curb COVID-19. Don't do what we did. It's not working.
Regardless of whether herd immunity is a goal or a side effect of the Swedish strategy, how has it worked out? Not so well, according to the agency’s own test results. The proportion of Swedes carrying antibodies is estimated to be under 10%,(7.3%) thus nowhere near herd immunity. And yet, the Swedish death rate is unnerving. Sweden has a death toll greater than the United States: 556 deaths per million inhabitants, compared with 425, as of July 20.

Yes, that open letter from 25 Swedish doctors has been all over the internet. I read it here.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opin...we-did-its-not-working/ar-BB16ZEEv?li=BBnb7Kz

As a matter of fact, that article was the reason I decided to take a close look at the graphs for Sweden a couple of days ago and have watched it closely since.

Understand, of course, that I do not advocate herd immunity as a goal. However, I will readily accept it as a side effect.

It is true that the coronavirus has been brutal in a number of places. It seems to be particularly brutal in area of high density and mobility as one might expect. For a country of relatively low density, it has been particularly brutal in Sweden. However, it appears that the major portion of their pain is now over. And I am not sure that comparing their deaths per million with ours makes for a strong point. They currently have a 7 day average of 3 deaths per day. Our 7 day average for deaths is 862.

Even accounting for population differences, that argument appears to be a loser to me.
 
Just for context, the following is for the number of deaths per million population in the countries and states noted as of yesterday:

USA 441
Brazil 390
Peru 529
Mexico 313
Chile 456
Spain 608
UK 670
Italy 580
France 462
Sweden 561
Belgium 846
Netherlands 358
New York 1677
New Jersey 1777
California 204
Florida 249
Texas 157
Illinois 595
Georgia 314
Arizona 409
Ohio 277
Michigan 640

The percentages (rounded to one decimal) for each in reported cases per population are:

USA 1.2%
Brazil 1.0%
Peru 1.1%
Mexico .3%
Chile 1.8%
Spain .7%
UK .4%
Italy .4%
France .3%
Sweden .8%
Belgium .6%
Netherlands .3%
New York 2.2%
New Jersey 2.1%
California 1.1%
Florida 1.8%
Texas 1.3%
Illinois 1.3%
Georgia 1.5%
Arizona 2.1%
Ohio .6%
Michigan .8%

If anyone wishes to check my math, have at it. I won't be offended if you can correct an error.

If you believe the 10 times theory is typical, you can multiply each of the percentages by 10. In my view, it is likely that in areas of high density, the percentage differential is likely much higher and in areas of low density, the percentage differential is lower.

But that is just a guess.
 
One thing for sure. I never planed for a pandemic. yet been very busy the past 6+ months planing. staying home for near 2 months. but had to go out the past 2 months. for food it's just too hot here for delivery, if you want frozen foods. I've used a cooler(s) with reusable ice packets since moving here. do it in the winter just not to break my routine. Thank God for curbside pick up. Genius

In the past I mostly wasn't a people watcher (other than nice looking women had radar). but now I can't stop, being out it's like being at the Zoo. He touched that then his face ! even people waiting for curbside pick up, then when their food comes get right up on the store person. meanwhile I am checking wind direction at all times.

It's not easy trying to do EVERYTHING to stay safe. but shutting down stuff is no answer. people under 40 in good health need to be set free of all this lockdown crap. then it would be up to them to stay away from older people. of coarse it will not be possible for all to do this. being poor sucks again.

Those commies must pay

I basically took that approach in the beginning. I stayed at home as instructed and asked my kids and grandkids to stay away; I ordered groceries online and had Walmart load them into the trunk of my car.

However, as the two weeks "to slow the spread" evolved into a 30 day extension I began to change my tune. I decided it was worth taking the chance in order to see my grandkids and I preferred my grocery substitutions to the ones I got from Walmart.

I still avoid the grocery store as much as possible and I have worn a mask every time I have visited any store. I still visit the drive through mainly for food, but my wife and I have gone out to eat several times during the past month and have enjoyed it. We wear masks until the food arrives and put the masks back on after dinner. In a way, it seems like closing the barn door after the horse has left the premises, but it is the rule and we follow the rules.

There has been something of a surge here in Oklahoma in both new cases and death in the past month although not on the order of other southern states. Unlike some of those, I don't have much hope for a relatively strong herd immunity in my state. But even a weak herd immunity that might help end the current surge would be welcome.
 
Comparing us to them ? agree it doesn't work. but .......

It looks to me this virus is boomeranging. time will tell

Mad, I would like for you to look at three graphs. In each case check the 7 day average checkbox.

First compare the graph for new cases for Sweden and Arizona:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/arizona/

Who knows what will happen tomorrow, but it appears to me that the graph for Arizona is following that of Sweden.

After you have done that, take a look at the graph for new cases for Australia:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

I must tell you that the graph for Australia looks more like a boomerang to me than the one for Sweden.

Let us hope that the Australian authorities and health departments can get the current surge in Australia under control. In the past four weeks, they have gone from 22 new cases per day to 345 cases per day based on a 7 day running average. As you can see from the graph, they got control of the virus once before. Lets hope that they can do it again, because if they don't, it is anybody's guess how high the number of new cases per day will go.
 
I’ll respect everyone’s viewpoints on this.

I have zero confidence on everything concerning this virus.

That includes the total of deaths which we’ve already seen have been altered to meet an agenda.

Stay safe, show some common sense we’ll get through this just fine.
 
I’ll respect everyone’s viewpoints on this.

I have zero confidence on everything concerning this virus.

That includes the total of deaths which we’ve already seen have been altered to meet an agenda.

Stay safe, show some common sense we’ll get through this just fine.

Regarding deaths, I suspect that the number of deaths resulting from Covid-19 is probably inflated due to a financial incentive for hospitals to assign Covid-19 as the cause of death where Covid-19 is present regardless of actual cause of death.

But I see no advantage to either under or over reporting the number of known cases of the disease in this country and therefore doubt a significant error in the case count in the USA.

However, due to the apparent large number of asymptomatic cases, I strongly suspect that the number of actual cases is significantly undercounted. Recent studies based on antibody incidence indicate that the actual number may be as much as or more than 10 times the reported number.

I suspect that in high densely populated areas it is much higher than 10 times and probably less than 10 times in low densely populated areas.

Looking back, I don't think that shutting down the economy was very successful. It started out as two weeks to slow the spread and evolved into a much longer and more devastating shutdown. In large measure, in my opinion, it simply did not work. The cost was great and the benefit was relatively meager.

If anyone still maintains that shutting the economy down worked in any significant way, I will mention what happened in New York. On March 16, 2020, the Trump administration issued new guidelines which essentially shut down significant portions of the economy.

What was the effect in New York?

The number of cases immediately spiked. On March 16 there were 235 new cases of the coronavirus reported in the state of New York. Three weeks later, on April 6, the 7 day average for the number of new cases per day in New York reached 9,432. During this three week period, only essential workers were permitted to work and everybody else was essentially confined to their homes.

How can that be called a success?

A week later when the 7 day average for new cases reached 10,059, the trend reversed and the number of new cases started a slow decline.

According to the proponents of the shutdown, their efforts at containing the disease were finally bearing fruit.

I agree that shutting down the economy may have reduced the number of cases during that 3 week period, but I seriously doubt that it was the cause of the turnaround. I think the turnaround was a result of a significant number of people gaining immunity who by circumstance or behavior tended to be most exposed to the virus.

In other words, my guess is that if an antibody study was directed toward people who rode the subways in New York and New Jersey during that period, they would find that a very high percentage of those riders contain the antibodies thus giving them immunity.
 
Interferon Treatment Trial 'a Major Breakthrough' Against the Pandemic

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...-Major-Breakthrough-Against-the-Pandemic.html
We could use a break on this


Mad, I would like for you to look at three graphs. In each case check the 7 day average checkbox.

First compare the graph for new cases for Sweden and Arizona:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/arizona/

Who knows what will happen tomorrow, but it appears to me that the graph for Arizona is following that of Sweden.

After you have done that, take a look at the graph for new cases for Australia:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

I must tell you that the graph for Australia looks more like a boomerang to me than the one for Sweden.
Done very little looking at Sweden over this journey.

My thoughts are the virus will go back north as the season changes. peaking out in March- April. gone by 2022. hope to be wrong. maybe this Interferon can save some lives.

Let us hope that the Australian authorities and health departments can get the current surge in Australia under control. In the past four weeks, they have gone from 22 new cases per day to 345 cases per day based on a 7 day running average. As you can see from the graph, they got control of the virus once before. Lets hope that they can do it again, because if they don't, it is anybody's guess how high the number of new cases per day will go.
This is a Melbourne problem mostly. not slowing yet. that phone app didn't work for them they say. sad...... they almost had it gone.
 
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