It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns

Sorry player fans. It's time. Baker Mayfield is an average NFL QB, a future journeyman ...and it's time to look at our options. There are only two QBs in the NFL worse than Baker Mayfield in the 4th quarter. We routinely finish in the bottom half in almost every meaningful passing category. There is nothing at all special about him. I used to think he had an elite arm, but a lot of QBs can throw the ball hard. He can certainly throw it, but how well does he pass it really? High, hard, and behind. Rinse and repeat. A large percentage of his completions go that route as well. He has every single weakness he had coming out of college. Nothing at all has improved. In the NFL he isn't chucking up prayers to NFL caliber WRs being covered by guys who are now checking out your groceries. Baker Mayfield is the 4th best QB in the AFC North. Out of 4 teams.



Last place in the division. Most in here predicted outlandish success this season. 12 wins? 14? Maybe more. This blow-hard thought we would likely have less wins than last season, simply due to a historically easy schedule in 2020. The Browns just lost to a team with no kicker, and a fat QB who likely has lower back problems, and runs about as fast as an arthritic sloth. People are now starting to look for new excuses. The new coach is holding the team back. The WRs drop the ball too much. Mean fans are hurting Emily Mayfield's feelings and it's having an effect on Baker's play. The truth is, there's a bottleneck at the QB position. We have a Superbowl caliber roster, and a QB that is limiting what we can do with it. Baker Mayfield is the best QB we have had in twenty years ....and people are desperate to defend him. I get it.



Against the Steelers on Sunday we witnessed something we try really hard to ignore. Baker throwing high and hard the majority of the game. While throwing from the pocket, Baker not only can't see most of the field, but he throws his trademark bullets high enough to get over the defenders standing between he and his receiver. This just doesn't work, as the trajectory of these bullets leave them high and often behind his mark. A difficult ask of WRs, TEs, and RBs. You'll have player fans on twitter showing slow motion replays of a ball going through Hooper's hand, and calling anyone who dares criticize Baker a "mouth breather", but in reality Hooper was at the top of his jump, arms outstretched to the max, trying to reel in a high, hard, and behind football. Could have easily been a walk in touchdown instead... a bad pass. A QB could normally avoid this by putting some touch on the ball, a little arc, or air under it ....but Baker doesn't seem to have that gear.



Mayfield throughout his entire career has made a cottage industry of rolling to his right. It seems to be the one thing he is great at. The problem is, when you are a one-trick pony, other teams game-plan to take that trick away from you. Baker has rolled right and attempted to pass a total of 6 times this year. Think about that in relation to each year prior. Teams have forced Baker into the pocket, the Steelers literally dared the Browns to pass practically the entire game. How is it working out?

Fourth quarter, and another chance to win a game. Most of us knew what was going to happen didn't we? We have held onto hope, praying that the light would go on, that Baker would make wholesale changes, and he would become the Browns franchise QB ...someone we could count on to put the team on his back and lead us to victory with the game on the line. What we have got in reality is a QB that is 33 of 62, with 4 TDs and 5 INTS. Sam Darnold is the only QB as bad as Mayfield with the game on the line since 2018. Mayfield's passing rating with the game on the line is 61.3 and the Browns are 3-11 in these scenarios.

Kevin Stefanski was hired to reign in Mayfield's erratic tendencies. Stefanski's offense tends to turn average QBs into statistical wonders, (Case Keenum) and perhaps limit some players at certain positions, like a downfield QB and burner WR for example. Some argue that Stefanski has taken Mayfield's gunslinger aura away from him, which while true is also the reason why Baker has become far less prone to interceptions. The dink and dunk offense with numerous screens and TE heavy route trees certainly makes a QB look good on paper at times ...but who is Baker Mayfield without the ability to roll out on play action and plant bombs down the field? Certainly these are often 50/50 bombs, but they do add to what an opposing defense has to worry about. Mayfield has 10 completions of 20 or more yards this season ...20th in the league. Recall Stefon Diggs having the same issue that OBJ is currently having in the Stefanski offense. He moved on to the Bills and is back to all-pro form. I suspect OBJ will do the same for some other team.

In short, we have no vertical passing attack, while employing one of the very best WR tandems in the game, and one of the fastest WRs in the league in Schwartz. Did the Browns hire the right coach? If you believe analytics and going by the book is usually right, then yes. If you believe in coaches who base decisions on the ebb and flow of the game, their "gut" as it were, then no. We are the worst team in the league at going for it on 4th down. Analytics got us there.

We could have had Canton native and lifelong Browns fan Josh McDaniels.

So where are we now? A Superbowl caliber roster, with an extremely limited QB, and a coach who can only go by the book, apparently not capable of harnessing whatever "elite" trait Mayfield may have, if he has one at all. Playoffs this season ...not likely. Our Superbowl window is open for only a short while ...without the Browns front office doing something extremely out of character (see, ballsy) like going after a Watson, Wilson, or Rogers ...I don't see us going anywhere.

(yes another QB thread)

 

[Ragnar]

I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here, but I think Baker is salvageable. Does he have limitations? Absolutely. However, he was slinging the ball around early in his career and most of us loved him for it. That dime to Jarvis against the Panthers was beautiful, just to name one throw.

Somewhere along the line that gunslinger of a QB disappeared and a scared QB took his place. Does Baker take part of the blame for this? Yes, I believe he does, but I also believe this current regime has completely mindfucked him and stripped him of that Favre-esque quality. I guess where the monkey wrench comes is that if they have been pounding into his head about not taking chances, taking care of the ball, etc... then why is the play calling so fucked? Why does Nick Chubb disappear? Why did they abandon the run at the first sign of being down a TD?

Also, say what you will about the injuries but they are certainly not helping. I don't work for the Browns so I am only going by what I've heard radio guys and analysts say. They all say that Baker's throwing motion is unique and is more of a "torqueing" motion. So I can totally see that non-throwing shoulder affecting how he throws, if the last statement is true. Which, brings up another question... why the fuck did no one have the balls to tell Baker to shut it down by Week 4 at the latest? IMO, Stefanski could have possibly ruined him by not acting like the HC should and tell a guy that he is hurting the team and they would rather he get 100% healthy for next season.

They have already exercised his 5th year option. Get him healthy. Let AVP call the fucking plays if this staff is staying (nothing leads me to believe they won't be back). Get some better WR help in here. Come back with a healthy o-line.

Also, it's before 7AM on a Saturday so this post is probably all over the fucking place.

I see what you are saying. It is a good question, what happened to the Mayfield that would wake up feeling dangerous? Good question indeed. Well, two things happened...

1: He married an insufferable bitch who can't stop whining about how much she hates Cleveland. We all know, if she is bitching about it on Twitter every day she is bitching to him about it nonstop and getting in his head.

2: He has been saddled with a mentally incompetent head coach. They don't get along. Mayfield has made it known they don't get along. Mayfield has made it known he has zero respect for DePodestas errand boy. If the Captain of your squad doesn't respect the commander, neither does anyone else.

The first one is an easy fix. Send Mayfield and Mrs. Crybaby on a long off-season vacation some place nice for his rehab. Also, address and remove the actual problem effecting the entire team.

I said earlier in the season and will say it again: When Mayfield was most effective was under Greg Williams. He needs a strong minded, disciplined coach holding him accountable and pushing him to his potential. He will never be a Brady, or Manning or Burrow who pushes himself and everyone else to that level. So, he needs someone to do that.

Can he be salvaged? It is possible. He won't however be salvaged or turn it around under the current power and leadership structure.

 

[Stray Dawg]

I see what you are saying. It is a good question, what happened to the Mayfield that would wake up feeling dangerous? Good question indeed. Well, two things happened...

1: He married an insufferable bitch who can't stop whining about how much she hates Cleveland. We all know, if she is bitching about it on Twitter every day she is bitching to him about it nonstop and getting in his head.

2: He has been saddled with a mentally incompetent head coach. They don't get along. Mayfield has made it known they don't get along. Mayfield has made it known he has zero respect for DePodestas errand boy. If the Captain of your squad doesn't respect the commander, neither does anyone else.

The first one is an easy fix. Send Mayfield and Mrs. Crybaby on a long off-season vacation some place nice for his rehab. Also, address and remove the actual problem effecting the entire team.

I said earlier in the season and will say it again: When Mayfield was most effective was under Greg Williams. He needs a strong minded, disciplined coach holding him accountable and pushing him to his potential. He will never be a Brady, or Manning or Burrow who pushes himself and everyone else to that level. So, he needs someone to do that.

Can he be salvaged? It is possible. He won't however be salvaged or turn it around under the current power and leadership structure.

I agree. The constant coddling of the weak minded, will reap what we are seeing now. Which is a soft team transforming into a group of betas.......

 

[The Haymaker]

so this is what happened
baker said something like. "If we dont change up the OFF system more to a style I feel I can be more successful in?
something pretty drastic will have to happen" MKC-"would you consider asking for a trade?"
baker-"well,I wouldnt rule anything out"

this will be pretty close to what was said Id bet. baker is a man skating on very thin ice and I do believe his comments
will tip the scales and force the browns to bring in via FA or the draft another option at QB for the browns long term future.
you see baker cant complain now If we draft kenny "OH NO" pickett in the 1st rd. haslem will say "you left us no choice baker"
you have to be crazy If you think dee haslem didnt call cabbageface and ask her exactly what was discussed verbatim.
so for browns fans it could be a good outcome aftrerall. he plays off the hook in '22? then we tag him for '23.
dont buy the media hype. he's going nowhere fast. baker plays for the browns.the browns dont play for baker.

 

[BDU]

What has kept rattling around my head all season is the first five quarters of football for the season.

In the first game against Kansas City, Mayfield completed 21/28 for 321 yards, 0 TD and 1 INT. The numbers are a little deceiving. Mayfield led those touchdown drives before we ran them in from short range. We had some missed opportunities (Schwartz, for example, had a key 3rd down drop and also fell on a wide open, long-range TD throw when he lost the ball in the sun.) But Mayfield was the best player on the whole field, even better than Mahomes, and put the Browns in position for a huge win. Ultimately the game came down to Gillan's muffed punt, JJ3 giving up an 80 yarder to Hill, etc. Even the INT occurred when he was tripped while trying to get out of the pocket and throw it away on first down.

In the second game against Houston, Mayfield was again excellent. 19/21 for 213 yards, 1 TD, 1 rushing TD and 1 INT. The INT occurred when Schwartz got caught up on his route, and that's the play he was injured on. He played extremely well, yet again. Efficient, decisive and extremely accurate.

It was after there it began to fall apart, and as the injuries mounted his play increasingly deteriorated. It was frustrating, annoying and turned a promising season in to total mess. But when I had doubts, I ran back the pre-injury film to what looked poised to be the best year we had seen from Baker Mayfield. Back to back 30 point performances, over 10 yards per attempt and a staggering 82% completion percentage - with a couple of drops and throwaways on busted plays. I think he had two throws or reads I didn't like. The film was fantastic.

I feel like if I had jumped in a time machine and said to people the week before the season began, "Bad news. Mayfield is going to tear his labrum in week two. Over the following weeks he'll add a fracture, three shoulder dislocations, a knee contusion, a bruised heel, a groin strain and he'll get COVID."

Would anyone expect the season to go any differently?

It's strange to me the media is so happily showing the film of an injured player just because he only threw for 2,800 yards, 16 touchdowns and 13 intercept.... wait, those are Lamar Jackson's numbers and we're not watching his film because he was hurt and we typically avoid evaluating injured players. Literally near identical seasons - admittedly Lamar added 700 rushing yards and 2 TD - but both injured players were just so, so far removed from their normal ability.

And it wasn't just Mayfield's injury. Jed Wills was hurt for the first half of the season, we lost Conklin for most of the season, Chubb and Hunt both dealt with injures, Odell was injured and then gone, Landry was clearly not fully healthy, we had two weeks of widespread COVID-19 infections (And nearly won both games despite missing half our players) and the defence also struggled to be healthy.

All of the above just makes me want to put this season in the rear mirror and run it back next year, hopefully without the extensive amount of injuries.

Mayfield does have issues he needs to work on. He's definitely got footwork and mechanic issues which could be cleaned up, and may have become more ingrained while playing hurt.

Stefenski needs to mix things up a little. It's 2022, let's not run Jumbo every other play. Part of me wonders if it's just because we desperately need WR help, but he needs to open it up a little. I also wonder if Stefanski just didn't know how to call plays given the situation with injuries at QB, RB and in the protection. At times he was too conservative, at times he was a little too business-as-usual. I can't really fault him - there isn't a viable game plan with that many injuries.

It just strikes me as so odd we're looking to move on, and that there is overwhelming media pressure to do so. It isn't a coincidence Mayfield got hurt and his productivity and efficiency literally halved. He had three years of significantly better play, and as mentioned the year started wonderful for Mayfield and the offense.

And let's be honest, who are we getting? This QB class is certainly questionable. Reports suggest we're not on the list of teams Wilson will waive his no-trade clause for, and Rodgers has been hinting at a return to Green Bay given they gave in to his demands and have improved. I'm worried we're more likely to end up with Kirk Cousins than a legitimate, franchise quarterback.

Over our years of mediocrity at quarterback, my approach to the position has ultimately become "Don't tell me who isn't good enough, tell me who is." And I'm not seeing a whole lot of great answers across the football world.

I think, ideally, we get our hands on one of the WR studs in this loaded draft (Mayfield follows Ohio State's Garrett Wilson on Twitter, just saying) and see what we can do with another year and, hopefully, greater health.

But starting over just to start over, without a clear upgrade, is territory I wouldn't be comfortable with.

 

[The Haymaker]

drafting a QB is not a risk.Its a necessity at this point.even If we get a fitz or minshew Id still like a QB taken somewhere.

It just strikes me as so odd we're looking to move on

do ju got a froggy in your pocket? the fans and media arent running the CB.baker is going no where.
an like you said the kids been injured so,whos to say he might not get injured again? an all we have is keenum..again?
that? Im not comfortable with either. It doesnt have to even be in the 1st rd.a 2nd rd QB and 1st rd WR? thats fine.
I dont advocate drafting a starter necessarily.they would play behind baker.

 

[BDU]

drafting a QB is not a risk.Its a necessity at this point.even If we get a fitz or minshew Id still like a QB taken somewhere.

do ju got a froggy in your pocket? the fans and media arent running the CB.baker is going no where.
an like you said the kids been injured so,whos to say he might not get injured again? an all we have is keenum..again?
that? Im not comfortable with either. It doesnt have to even be in the 1st rd.a 2nd rd QB and 1st rd WR? thats fine.
I dont advocate drafting a starter necessarily.they would play behind baker.you know who is playing well? minshew.

I agree I might be a little dramatic. I want to hope our coaching staff, front office and player group isn't nearly as reactionary as the media and won't buy in to the emergence of external narratives.

I do think the media has the power to divide. For example, Baker and Odell. When I look at those two;

Year one, Odell had a sports hernia and wasn't played his best football. The Kitchens' system was too ambitious for a bad OL.
Year two, Odell and Baker were learning a new offense. They did this without an offseason due to the impacts of COVID-19. Before they could get on the same page, Odell tore his ACL.
Year three, Baker sustained his injury before Odell returned from his. Odell demanded out at what I would call the height of Mayfield's injury.

That's a LOT of pressure on two guys who hardly ever saw the field together without being either injured or bogged down learning a new system. Has there been such an emphasis on the connection between any WR or QB during that time? Not that I have noticed. So I think part of that fallout might actually be due to the increased pressure on the two, playing every game under a microscope.

So right now we've got media driving a narrative of division. Both have their feet to the fire, with reports both side feel like the other is holding the offense back. I don't believe it. Baker would not leak his frustrations to MKC because he's very, very clearly not a fan of her. And Stefanski has built a reputation on being incredibly tight lipped. But people are human, emotions can get the best of everyone, and it's just not a great position for either side to be in.

I agree on moving on from Keenum and replacing him with a cheaper option with higher upside. It depends on the quarterback more than where we get him. Be that in the first (Obviously they would have to LOVE him) or later in the draft if the value is right.

But I do think we have to tread carefully because the emerging narrative is insane. I saw Bucky Brooks advocate for trading away Mayfield for Jimmy G. Like, that's insane. That's an objectively bad trade. And now Minny is looking increasingly likely to move on from Cousins, and I would hate to see Stefanski make a desperation move if he thinks his quarterback might want out next season.

Ultimately, I just want patience and cooler heads to prevail - and I don't have the utmost faith in people.

 

[The Haymaker]

cousins, yeah that could happen.with his price tag? jeez that would be desperate and a lateral move IMO.hate it.
no I think and hope we will use the draft as we historically have.clowney has been a rare exception of FA working out well here.
traditional sideline WR's dont mesh well with baker.hes just not a deep corner thrower.he likes to throw around the hash marks.
slot players and TE's do much better. thats not to say you cant scheme them open for baker (like WR post throws)
IMO DPJ could be a #1 WR. he just needs the targets. BTW I hope hooper is cut/released. over-rated and over payed from day 1.
draft a TE.solid class. promote carlson to the lineup as TE3. the kid deserves his shot at the big dance.

 

[BDU]

Actually, to reiterate the point further, Dak Prescott makes a fascinating case study.

Dak Prescott breaks Tony Romo's single-season TD pass record in Cowboys' win over Eagles

After tossing 37 TDs passes in the 2021 season, Cowboys QB Dak Prescott's comeback season has officially earned a place in the franchise's record books.

www.nfl.com

It wasn't so long ago Dak was the one receiving the Mayfield treatment. Constant questions surrounding if he was worth a mega-extension, his numbers during his rookie deal were good but not great and the Cowboys were in and out of the playoffs as an inconsistent team - making the playoffs twice in his first four years before he suffered a serious injury in his 5th year.

But replacing a quarterback is painfully hard. They gave Dak 4 years, $160M and have loaded him up on receivers with the acquisition of Amari Cooper, the selection of CeeDee Lamb and adding other talented young receivers and tight ends to compliment their stars.

They went to great lengths to put him in a position to succeed, build around him and they've been rewarded with a performance which outweighs anything he'd accomplished prior. Now they're playoff bound and could realistically be contenders.

I'd love to see us take the same approach with Baker.

 

[BDU]

cousins, yeah that could happen.with his price tag? jeez that would be desperate and a lateral move IMO.hate it.
no I think and hope we will use the draft as we historically have.clowney has been a rare exception of FA working out well here.
traditional sideline WR's dont mesh well with baker.hes just not a deep corner thrower.he likes to throw around the hash marks.
slot players and TE's do much better. thats not to say you cant scheme them open for baker (like WR post throws)
IMO DPJ could be a #1 WR. he just needs the targets. BTW I hope hooper is cut/released. over-rated and over payed from day 1.
draft a TE.solid class. promote carlson to the lineup as TE3. the kid deserves his shot at the big dance.

I have a theory about those being throws a quarterback has to develop with enough trust in his receivers.

Look at Dak Prescott and Joe Burrow. They've drafted someone else's superstar. Cinci can't keep Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Uzomah and Sample together long term. They might only be able to keep one or two long term. But in the mean time, Burrow is playing with confidence and developing very positive aspects of his game.

The same is true with Prescott and Cooper, Lamb, Gallup, Blake and Schultz.

The Bills grabbed Diggs, Beasley, Davis, Sanders, Knox and a bunch of talented running backs to help Allen along.

Even over in Baltimore, they grabbed Mayfield's guys in Hollywood Brown and Mark Andrews before adding Nick Boyd, Sammy Watkins, Rashod Bateman, Myles Boykin, Tylan Wallace, Devin Duvernay and James Proche. Not to mention guys like Dobbins, Edwards and Hill to complete a solid ground game.

From the outside looking in, surrounding a guy with skill players works wonders. I wouldn't get caught up on condensing Mayfield to playing within the numbers, but adding a handful of players and seeing who he can really become.

 

[The Haymaker]

his throwing style is flat with power.Its why he throws so many picks.he just doesn't have great touch passes.
this is not an opinion.Its been 4 years now.watch the tape.he can and does throw bombs but not consistently.
we have covered this ad nauseam here already. closest comparison would be ol #4 but favre had more power and accuracy.
Its hard comparing baker to other QB's for the reason.the classic pocket QB he is not and never will be.

 

[BDU]

Breaking - Browns commit to Mayfield for the 2022 season.

Browns plan to move forward with Baker Mayfield as their QB

The Browns will head into the offseason with plans to retain Baker Mayfield as their QB for 2022. Plenty of scenarios have been rumored, including Mayfield wanting to move on and Cleveland wanting to move on. Barring a dramatic shift, it doesn’t appear

www.nfl.com

Well, there we go.

A joint report from Ian Rapoport and Tom Pelissero citing sources have confirmed the Browns will move forward in to 2022 with Baker Mayfield at quarterback.

The report itself is quite limited. Just states sources say the Browns will "retain Mayfield as their quarterback in 2022" but that's about what you would expect.

EDIT - MKC adding her own, now.

Baker Mayfield has exit meeting with Kevin Stefanski and he’s still set to be QB1 for 2022; Myles Garrett lobbies Jadeveon Clowney: Browns Insider

Mayfield's timeline before and after surgery, Garrett lobbying Clowney, and more.

www.cleveland.com

She claims the Browns plan to move forward with Mayfield as the starter. She said Mayfield has had his exit meeting, and although the team didn't like Mayfield's criticism of Stefanski they do not believe there are major differences and it's all been attributed to heat-of-the-moment talk. She said there has been no substantive contract extension talks and it is not expected to happen this offseason, and his play in 2022 will dictate if the Browns offer an extension or franchise tag him - interesting, it specifically says that, but omits the possibility of just letting him walk.

She also claims Clowney loved being a brown and will consider resigning, and that Landry is in great standing with the organisation. The Browns are also interesting in bringing Njoku back. These are glossed over because it seems more based on public record than sourced.

I'd almost said it earlier, but I was surprised the Browns hadn't leaked something like this sooner. Similar to the Giants leaking that Daniel Jones would be returning as their quarterback, these kind of leaks aim to kill off outside rhetoric and set the expectations for fans heading in to the offseason. I hadn't said anything because we would typically expect that kind of leak at the end of the season, not hours before the final game, but I'm guessing they just wanted to stop the rhetoric in its tracks.

So, what we've now got is Mayfield shutting down a report he will consider asking for a trade, and the Browns shutting down talk the organisation will look to move on.

Of course, we should confront a simple possibility - if you want to draft a quarterback or trade for a quarterback, you don't want people knowing that's the plan. But as I've said, the Browns are usually notoriously quiet. Nobody is sure who is a free agent target, a trade target or a draft target. This feels purposeful, but it's worth keeping an eye on - are they just trying to hide an incoming transition?

I doubt it, so I move to what I want from this organisation if the decision to retain Mayfield is going to be a successful one:

1. After last season, Mayfield said he wouldn't work with a QB coach. He was quoted as saying he already knew what he needed to work on and he was excited to undertake that process. But I find this foolish for two reasons. Firstly, the best in the game all work with quarterback coaches. It isn't a one-man process and the coaching provides a clear benefit. Secondly, Mayfield continued to have sloppy footwork and mechanics - even when playing well at the start of the season - which deteriorated towards the end of the year to, frankly, being comical.

I feel like it's part of who he is. The underdog mentality, the trust in himself and his own knowledge, while also perhaps thinking valid criticism is overblown. I would like to see him admit he needs dramatic improvement there and aggressively attack it with someone who can help him. Recovering from surgery shouldn't prove too much of an impediment to this, and I think he could get in plenty of time to work on some of his issues.

2. I just want to see us address some of the skill positions and load up on talent around him, both in the draft and free agency. Nobody should really be safe in this, and we've got plenty of room for both competition and outright upgrades.

3. If Mayfield is miffed with the offense, I'd like to see Stefanski work with him on that. Figure out what he can do better, what will compliment his strengths, what he feels most comfortable with and how he can overhaul the system to be more friendly. I suspect modernising the system a little to get the receivers involved and do away with some of the pre-snap motions, bunched formations and compressed route concepts. Open things up a little.

4. With the above said, I'd like to see Mayfield receptive to what Stefanski does and how he can compliment it. It goes both ways. I trust everyone has seen the videos which highlight how this timing-based offense is often thrown because Mayfield takes the snap with his left foot forward, which adds an extra step and throws off the timing. If he can iron out little things like that, he should. The same goes for the concepts at the heart of the scheme. This offense will often require Mayfield to operate under center (Allegedly prefers shotgun) or they'll be based in the jumbo. He has to make some of that work.

 

[The Haymaker]

dont buy the media hype. he's going nowhere fast. baker plays for the browns.the browns dont play for baker.

 

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Nobody on earth thinks Mayfield is going anywhere unless we upgrade the position. We aren't drafting a QB high.

Mayfield has sucked all season, and it's on him, nobody else. He should have sat his ass down for the sake of the team starting in week 3. Our coach didn't have the balls to sit him, but what really doesn't jive is Stefanski said Baker looked good an unaffected by injury in practice. And then there was the Bengals game. One wonders if it was something else other than an injury to a non throwing shoulder than compromised Baker's play. Perhaps a bruised ego. There were rumblings early on about Baker being pissed off because someone didn't accept his invite to Texas, the place he actually lives ...the second he isn't forced to be in Cleveland.

Had Mayfield sat, we should still have one of the most dynamic duos in the NFL for WRs, and we would be sitting our guys waiting for the playoffs this week. We also wouldn't be talking about replacing Mayfield with a Watson or Wilson, etc.

Our supposed leaders bungled and botched an entire season and there is zero justification for it. Unacceptable.

 

[Stray Dawg]

What has kept rattling around my head all season is the first five quarters of football for the season.

In the first game against Kansas City, Mayfield completed 21/28 for 321 yards, 0 TD and 1 INT. The numbers are a little deceiving. Mayfield led those touchdown drives before we ran them in from short range. We had some missed opportunities (Schwartz, for example, had a key 3rd down drop and also fell on a wide open, long-range TD throw when he lost the ball in the sun.) But Mayfield was the best player on the whole field, even better than Mahomes, and put the Browns in position for a huge win. Ultimately the game came down to Gillan's muffed punt, JJ3 giving up an 80 yarder to Hill, etc. Even the INT occurred when he was tripped while trying to get out of the pocket and throw it away on first down.

In the second game against Houston, Mayfield was again excellent. 19/21 for 213 yards, 1 TD, 1 rushing TD and 1 INT. The INT occurred when Schwartz got caught up on his route, and that's the play he was injured on. He played extremely well, yet again. Efficient, decisive and extremely accurate.

It was after there it began to fall apart, and as the injuries mounted his play increasingly deteriorated. It was frustrating, annoying and turned a promising season in to total mess. But when I had doubts, I ran back the pre-injury film to what looked poised to be the best year we had seen from Baker Mayfield. Back to back 30 point performances, over 10 yards per attempt and a staggering 82% completion percentage - with a couple of drops and throwaways on busted plays. I think he had two throws or reads I didn't like. The film was fantastic.

I feel like if I had jumped in a time machine and said to people the week before the season began, "Bad news. Mayfield is going to tear his labrum in week two. Over the following weeks he'll add a fracture, three shoulder dislocations, a knee contusion, a bruised heel, a groin strain and he'll get COVID."

Would anyone expect the season to go any differently?

It's strange to me the media is so happily showing the film of an injured player just because he only threw for 2,800 yards, 16 touchdowns and 13 intercept.... wait, those are Lamar Jackson's numbers and we're not watching his film because he was hurt and we typically avoid evaluating injured players. Literally near identical seasons - admittedly Lamar added 700 rushing yards and 2 TD - but both injured players were just so, so far removed from their normal ability.

And it wasn't just Mayfield's injury. Jed Wills was hurt for the first half of the season, we lost Conklin for most of the season, Chubb and Hunt both dealt with injures, Odell was injured and then gone, Landry was clearly not fully healthy, we had two weeks of widespread COVID-19 infections (And nearly won both games despite missing half our players) and the defence also struggled to be healthy.

All of the above just makes me want to put this season in the rear mirror and run it back next year, hopefully without the extensive amount of injuries.

Mayfield does have issues he needs to work on. He's definitely got footwork and mechanic issues which could be cleaned up, and may have become more ingrained while playing hurt.

Stefenski needs to mix things up a little. It's 2022, let's not run Jumbo every other play. Part of me wonders if it's just because we desperately need WR help, but he needs to open it up a little. I also wonder if Stefanski just didn't know how to call plays given the situation with injuries at QB, RB and in the protection. At times he was too conservative, at times he was a little too business-as-usual. I can't really fault him - there isn't a viable game plan with that many injuries.

It just strikes me as so odd we're looking to move on, and that there is overwhelming media pressure to do so. It isn't a coincidence Mayfield got hurt and his productivity and efficiency literally halved. He had three years of significantly better play, and as mentioned the year started wonderful for Mayfield and the offense.

And let's be honest, who are we getting? This QB class is certainly questionable. Reports suggest we're not on the list of teams Wilson will waive his no-trade clause for, and Rodgers has been hinting at a return to Green Bay given they gave in to his demands and have improved. I'm worried we're more likely to end up with Kirk Cousins than a legitimate, franchise quarterback.

Over our years of mediocrity at quarterback, my approach to the position has ultimately become "Don't tell me who isn't good enough, tell me who is." And I'm not seeing a whole lot of great answers across the football world.

I think, ideally, we get our hands on one of the WR studs in this loaded draft (Mayfield follows Ohio State's Garrett Wilson on Twitter, just saying) and see what we can do with another year and, hopefully, greater health.

But starting over just to start over, without a clear upgrade, is territory I wouldn't be comfortable with.

Mayfield does not want to be here. He played like shit, he bashed his teammates, he bashed the coaching and he bashed the fans. I can get past bashing the coaches and his teammates. But don't ever bash the fans.......

 

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Whether he wants to mouth off to the fans or not doesn't matter to me as much as the fact that he is statistically the worst "franchise QB" in the league. I mean, if that's what we are calling him anyway. Generally a QB with the type of stats Baker has couldn't be considered a franchise QB. And I am not talking about just this season, I am talking about over the course of his career. On top of that being the only franchise QB in the league who doesn't live in the city he represents? And a mouthy wannabe Instagram model of a wife running her pie hole every other week? I dunno, I had hope for better.

 

[The Haymaker]

you're not a baker fan? who knew?

 

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

You shit on Baker as much as any anyone midwit. I will be his biggest fan if he performs like a franchise QB on and off the field.

 

[The Haymaker]

I will be his biggest fan if he performs like a franchise QB on and off the field.

but Im a prick for changing my mind about keeping him? BTW thats all Ive changed my mind about him.

 

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

No you are a prick for a myriad of reasons.

 

[Brownie_Elf]

What has kept rattling around my head all season is the first five quarters of football for the season.

In the first game against Kansas City, Mayfield completed 21/28 for 321 yards, 0 TD and 1 INT. The numbers are a little deceiving. Mayfield led those touchdown drives before we ran them in from short range. We had some missed opportunities (Schwartz, for example, had a key 3rd down drop and also fell on a wide open, long-range TD throw when he lost the ball in the sun.) But Mayfield was the best player on the whole field, even better than Mahomes, and put the Browns in position for a huge win. Ultimately the game came down to Gillan's muffed punt, JJ3 giving up an 80 yarder to Hill, etc. Even the INT occurred when he was tripped while trying to get out of the pocket and throw it away on first down.

In the second game against Houston, Mayfield was again excellent. 19/21 for 213 yards, 1 TD, 1 rushing TD and 1 INT. The INT occurred when Schwartz got caught up on his route, and that's the play he was injured on. He played extremely well, yet again. Efficient, decisive and extremely accurate.

It was after there it began to fall apart, and as the injuries mounted his play increasingly deteriorated. It was frustrating, annoying and turned a promising season in to total mess. But when I had doubts, I ran back the pre-injury film to what looked poised to be the best year we had seen from Baker Mayfield. Back to back 30 point performances, over 10 yards per attempt and a staggering 82% completion percentage - with a couple of drops and throwaways on busted plays. I think he had two throws or reads I didn't like. The film was fantastic.

I feel like if I had jumped in a time machine and said to people the week before the season began, "Bad news. Mayfield is going to tear his labrum in week two. Over the following weeks he'll add a fracture, three shoulder dislocations, a knee contusion, a bruised heel, a groin strain and he'll get COVID."

Would anyone expect the season to go any differently?

It's strange to me the media is so happily showing the film of an injured player just because he only threw for 2,800 yards, 16 touchdowns and 13 intercept.... wait, those are Lamar Jackson's numbers and we're not watching his film because he was hurt and we typically avoid evaluating injured players. Literally near identical seasons - admittedly Lamar added 700 rushing yards and 2 TD - but both injured players were just so, so far removed from their normal ability.

And it wasn't just Mayfield's injury. Jed Wills was hurt for the first half of the season, we lost Conklin for most of the season, Chubb and Hunt both dealt with injures, Odell was injured and then gone, Landry was clearly not fully healthy, we had two weeks of widespread COVID-19 infections (And nearly won both games despite missing half our players) and the defence also struggled to be healthy.

All of the above just makes me want to put this season in the rear mirror and run it back next year, hopefully without the extensive amount of injuries.

Mayfield does have issues he needs to work on. He's definitely got footwork and mechanic issues which could be cleaned up, and may have become more ingrained while playing hurt.

Stefenski needs to mix things up a little. It's 2022, let's not run Jumbo every other play. Part of me wonders if it's just because we desperately need WR help, but he needs to open it up a little. I also wonder if Stefanski just didn't know how to call plays given the situation with injuries at QB, RB and in the protection. At times he was too conservative, at times he was a little too business-as-usual. I can't really fault him - there isn't a viable game plan with that many injuries.

It just strikes me as so odd we're looking to move on, and that there is overwhelming media pressure to do so. It isn't a coincidence Mayfield got hurt and his productivity and efficiency literally halved. He had three years of significantly better play, and as mentioned the year started wonderful for Mayfield and the offense.

And let's be honest, who are we getting? This QB class is certainly questionable. Reports suggest we're not on the list of teams Wilson will waive his no-trade clause for, and Rodgers has been hinting at a return to Green Bay given they gave in to his demands and have improved. I'm worried we're more likely to end up with Kirk Cousins than a legitimate, franchise quarterback.

Over our years of mediocrity at quarterback, my approach to the position has ultimately become "Don't tell me who isn't good enough, tell me who is." And I'm not seeing a whole lot of great answers across the football world.

I think, ideally, we get our hands on one of the WR studs in this loaded draft (Mayfield follows Ohio State's Garrett Wilson on Twitter, just saying) and see what we can do with another year and, hopefully, greater health.

But starting over just to start over, without a clear upgrade, is territory I wouldn't be comfortable with.

RDU, good stuff. Totally agree. Having Baker play all season when Case Keenum was available says volumes about the confidence the Browns had in Keenum. Yet, he did lead them to 2 wins as a game manager and put up decent game manager numbers. In both games the defense allowed a total of 17 points (1 TD on a defense TD). If Baker was as hurt as you say then his mobility and accuracy suffered, yet there he was week in and week out. I think $$$ made these decisions. Browns to see if he could make wine from water. Baker to cement a long term contract. However, he already had been signed to the extension. It seems obvious to me he sits if he's not healthy and see if keenum could game mange well enough to allow Baker to get healhier - or call his season if not.

As it turns out, Baker was god-awful. His success as a roll-out QB vanished. He looked small and slow - even dysfunctional - in the pocket. Is that the fault of Stefanski? Don't think so. Baker throws many passes high. Njoku was lost for the season in 2019 catching a high Baker pass. I would say most of Baker's interceptions have been the result of high passes.

Worse, in a league where QB mobility is increasingly necessary, Baker has very little to offer. His rollout option is the best choice for him as he has to be respected for his accuracy in that context. He can then choose to make a rushing attempt out of the rollout if things are not open - or throw it away outside the pocket. This was not used at all during most of the season.

I put the majority of the fault of this season on Baker because of his play and his insistence he could make things happen. Football is decided upon in practice. He was obviously playing well enough in practice to be considered the preferred option over Keenum.

To right this wrong, next season should be a real competition process. The job should not be Baker's or necessarily Baker's to lose. Make him prove it and earn it. Then have a reliable, legs-ready backup who could blend the rushing game with his own passing/rushing skills.

I gave up on the Browns and Baker this year. I'm tired of watching Browns games where they score 14-20 points. Or, they score 40+ and still lose. Just tired of the franchise. My first game was in 1964 when they won their last world championship. I was hooked on the Browns all the way thru till this year. Now I'm Just done with the mismanagment. When I say that, I'm also including Stefanski. He made some really boneheaded game management decisions. He abandoned the run at key times. He made bad 4th down and short decisions. He already didn't trust the passing game but obviously chose to trust the passing game over the dominance of the rushing offense. But Stefanski doesn't play football. So, at the end of the day, its up to execution of the players. In the end, the entire team was dysfunctional and in that way its the most telling indictment of Stefanski as a coach.

And, lastly, you are point on in looking at a guy like Greg Williams as a potential future coach. It would be wise to bring him back and give him the shot at calling defense and if Stefanski fails again, Williams is there. He WILL instill discipline and camaraderie. While the defense got its shit together as the year went on it was still one of the worst penalized teams in the league. WIlliams is a tried and true commodity to light a fire and keep it lit. He was .625 winning % as the interim Browns coach too.

I welcome comments.