It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns | Page 36 | Barking Hard

It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns

Sorry player fans. It's time. Baker Mayfield is an average NFL QB, a future journeyman ...and it's time to look at our options. There are only two QBs in the NFL worse than Baker Mayfield in the 4th quarter. We routinely finish in the bottom half in almost every meaningful passing category. There is nothing at all special about him. I used to think he had an elite arm, but a lot of QBs can throw the ball hard. He can certainly throw it, but how well does he pass it really? High, hard, and behind. Rinse and repeat. A large percentage of his completions go that route as well. He has every single weakness he had coming out of college. Nothing at all has improved. In the NFL he isn't chucking up prayers to NFL caliber WRs being covered by guys who are now checking out your groceries. Baker Mayfield is the 4th best QB in the AFC North. Out of 4 teams.



Last place in the division. Most in here predicted outlandish success this season. 12 wins? 14? Maybe more. This blow-hard thought we would likely have less wins than last season, simply due to a historically easy schedule in 2020. The Browns just lost to a team with no kicker, and a fat QB who likely has lower back problems, and runs about as fast as an arthritic sloth. People are now starting to look for new excuses. The new coach is holding the team back. The WRs drop the ball too much. Mean fans are hurting Emily Mayfield's feelings and it's having an effect on Baker's play. The truth is, there's a bottleneck at the QB position. We have a Superbowl caliber roster, and a QB that is limiting what we can do with it. Baker Mayfield is the best QB we have had in twenty years ....and people are desperate to defend him. I get it.



Against the Steelers on Sunday we witnessed something we try really hard to ignore. Baker throwing high and hard the majority of the game. While throwing from the pocket, Baker not only can't see most of the field, but he throws his trademark bullets high enough to get over the defenders standing between he and his receiver. This just doesn't work, as the trajectory of these bullets leave them high and often behind his mark. A difficult ask of WRs, TEs, and RBs. You'll have player fans on twitter showing slow motion replays of a ball going through Hooper's hand, and calling anyone who dares criticize Baker a "mouth breather", but in reality Hooper was at the top of his jump, arms outstretched to the max, trying to reel in a high, hard, and behind football. Could have easily been a walk in touchdown instead... a bad pass. A QB could normally avoid this by putting some touch on the ball, a little arc, or air under it ....but Baker doesn't seem to have that gear.

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Mayfield throughout his entire career has made a cottage industry of rolling to his right. It seems to be the one thing he is great at. The problem is, when you are a one-trick pony, other teams game-plan to take that trick away from you. Baker has rolled right and attempted to pass a total of 6 times this year. Think about that in relation to each year prior. Teams have forced Baker into the pocket, the Steelers literally dared the Browns to pass practically the entire game. How is it working out?

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Fourth quarter, and another chance to win a game. Most of us knew what was going to happen didn't we? We have held onto hope, praying that the light would go on, that Baker would make wholesale changes, and he would become the Browns franchise QB ...someone we could count on to put the team on his back and lead us to victory with the game on the line. What we have got in reality is a QB that is 33 of 62, with 4 TDs and 5 INTS. Sam Darnold is the only QB as bad as Mayfield with the game on the line since 2018. Mayfield's passing rating with the game on the line is 61.3 and the Browns are 3-11 in these scenarios.

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Kevin Stefanski was hired to reign in Mayfield's erratic tendencies. Stefanski's offense tends to turn average QBs into statistical wonders, (Case Keenum) and perhaps limit some players at certain positions, like a downfield QB and burner WR for example. Some argue that Stefanski has taken Mayfield's gunslinger aura away from him, which while true is also the reason why Baker has become far less prone to interceptions. The dink and dunk offense with numerous screens and TE heavy route trees certainly makes a QB look good on paper at times ...but who is Baker Mayfield without the ability to roll out on play action and plant bombs down the field? Certainly these are often 50/50 bombs, but they do add to what an opposing defense has to worry about. Mayfield has 10 completions of 20 or more yards this season ...20th in the league. Recall Stefon Diggs having the same issue that OBJ is currently having in the Stefanski offense. He moved on to the Bills and is back to all-pro form. I suspect OBJ will do the same for some other team.

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In short, we have no vertical passing attack, while employing one of the very best WR tandems in the game, and one of the fastest WRs in the league in Schwartz. Did the Browns hire the right coach? If you believe analytics and going by the book is usually right, then yes. If you believe in coaches who base decisions on the ebb and flow of the game, their "gut" as it were, then no. We are the worst team in the league at going for it on 4th down. Analytics got us there.

We could have had Canton native and lifelong Browns fan Josh McDaniels.

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So where are we now? A Superbowl caliber roster, with an extremely limited QB, and a coach who can only go by the book, apparently not capable of harnessing whatever "elite" trait Mayfield may have, if he has one at all. Playoffs this season ...not likely. Our Superbowl window is open for only a short while ...without the Browns front office doing something extremely out of character (see, ballsy) like going after a Watson, Wilson, or Rogers ...I don't see us going anywhere.

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(yes another QB thread)
 
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how bout? baker is coming off a severe injury and may not play at his best when he returns.
and even If he does what If he takes another shot like the one watt gave him and goes back on IR 4 games in?
so we dont trade up,we take the best QB we can that falls to #13 and then the best WR left on the board at #44
we sit the kid for a year behind BM and hope we dont have to play him. better to have and not need than need and not have huh?

We cannot use the 13th overall selection based on "What if our quarterback gets hurt?"

We need a wide receiver. Burks or Wilson are excellent choices. This shouldn't be a difficult decision for the front office.
 
what If he just sux then? we go 1-3 he throws 4 TD's and 4 INT's. how is our flashy (and now disgruntled) rookie WR going to help us then?
we know for sure hes capable of sucking right? is he capable of being the next joe burrow? Its unknown at best.
We cannot use the 13th overall selection based on "What if our quarterback gets hurt?"
why not? Its exactly what the niners did. they just went to the conference game AND have a stud QB in hand.
deebo? a 2nd rd WR
 
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what If he just sux then? we go 1-3 he throws 4 TD's and 4 INT's. how is our flashy (and now disgruntled) rookie WR going to help us then?

You're just going to "what if" to bizarre degrees until you get the answer you want.

What if trade Baker and we draft a rookie QB at 13, and draft another rookie QB at 44, and sign the best QB in free agency. But they join a satanic cult and commit ritual group suicide while Baker Mayfield throws for 6,700 yards, 73 touchdowns and wins the Superbowl - and he does so with the team who ends up drafting the WR we were going to target at 13 originally!?

I think the more likely outcome of drafting one of the nice receivers at 13 is he provides a boost to our offense and helps Baker get back to the level he can play at. If not better. Especially if Baker busts his ass to have a killer offseason - which, given the teams going to the Superbowl - I think it's pretty safe to say he's going to be motivated to push himself.
 
saying baker may not play as well as 2020 is not bizarre my friend. Its conservative and drafting a better backup? just smart.
he might just have been right when he said the injury was fine?he continues to play where he left off last year?its not bizarre at all.
a QB being hurt again once he was already hurt once? Its not whacky either. I could argue assuming he finishes 16 games is foolish.
low brow argument. is that the best you got? your the one cruising down the freeway in the hot hot sun.
 
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compromise? Id still be into this,.hell it might even be better than going 1st rd QB.we have to do something.we cant deer in headlights this.
draft assumes juice,njoku and wilson are gone.clowney we keep.rambo? think jersey sales alone.
dont forget as you watch the highlights ridder won every game you're watching. they went undefeated into the CFP. tall,lean and a winner

13: R1 P13 WR Garrett Wilson - Ohio State
44: R2 P12 QB Desmond Ridder - Cincinnati
78: R3 P14 LB Brandon Smith - Penn State
104: R4 P2 OT Max Mitchell - Louisiana
115: R4 P13 TE Isaiah Likely - Coastal Carolina
154: R5 P12 WR Charleston Rambo - Miami

 
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compromise? Id still be into this,.hell it might even be better than going 1st rd QB.we have to do something.we cant deer in headlights this.
draft assumes juice,njoku and wilson are gone.clowney we keep.rambo? think jersey sales alone.

13: R1 P13 WR Garrett Wilson - Ohio State
44: R2 P12 QB Desmond Ridder - Cincinnati
78: R3 P14 LB Brandon Smith - Penn State
104: R4 P2 OT Max Mitchell - Louisiana
115: R4 P13 TE Isaiah Likely - Coastal Carolina
154: R5 P12 WR Charleston Rambo - Miami



I don't mind Ridder or Willis in the second. Not the worst gamble in the world. I've said before I like Ridder most in this QB crop.

I LOVE pairing Wilson and Rambo with Mayfield. Two guys he knows, two guys who know him. I thinks that's a smart move.
 
So if Baker plays well enough to get us to round one of the playoffs next year, and gets drummed out ...we still paying him like a top 5 QB? Sorry he hasn't earned it, even with a good season next year. We need consistency before we cripple the team by over paying a short, fat QB. And we all know he will come back with a mushroom top after he gets paid. We have seen him do it before. Not hard for Baker to fall.off the wagon. I am sure the Browns would like to sign him to a team friendly deal right now. Baker isn't interested. Let's face it, he hates Cleveland, but he would stay here if it breaks the bank. Otherwise he and "his team", are out.
 

Pickett wouldn't let his hands be measured at the Senior Bowl so he can get the massage therapy which apparently helps stretch them out.

The line which caused me pause was this - "an AFC area scout whose region includes Pitt told NFL.com earlier this month that it's "under 9 (inches), for sure"

Nine inches is kinda the magic number for being big enough, as the article points out. For all the fuss made over guys like Burrow, Mahomes and Goff for small hands over the last few years, their hands met that threshold. They all measured in at nine inches or more.

If Pickett does measure in at under 9 inches, gotta wonder if it hurts him on draft day because there are teams who care about it.
 
So if Baker plays well enough to get us to round one of the playoffs next year, and gets drummed out ...we still paying him like a top 5 QB? Sorry he hasn't earned it, even with a good season next year. We need consistency before we cripple the team by over paying a short, fat QB. And we all know he will come back with a mushroom top after he gets paid. We have seen him do it before. Not hard for Baker to fall.off the wagon. I am sure the Browns would like to sign him to a team friendly deal right now. Baker isn't interested. Let's face it, he hates Cleveland, but he would stay here if it breaks the bank. Otherwise he and "his team", are out.
It would depend on his play Id say just making the playoffs wont guarantee the big $$ If he hasnt helped much to get us there.
we need to see some 2 minute drives from behind that win football games. If he doesnt look like a franchise guy why pay him like one?
we can still tag him in '23.having that rookie at QB2 is also important because it gives the FO leverage RE contract negotiations with BM.
the other possibility being ridder/willis/strong looks great and we dont need BM in '23 at all.stranger things have happened.
my gut tells me baker isnt going to come out looking fresh,new and better than ever.Id love it but dont see it happening.
gut tells me we've seen his best already.I hope Im wrong.I just hope the FO has its feet on the ground and looks to the future at QB.
 
drafting a 2nd rd QB

"The Browns should strongly consider taking a potential future backup QB in the later rounds of the draft. But this scenario has the Browns taking a quarterback higher, like in the second round with their pick at No. 45, as a potential viable alternative to Mayfield.
Draft a quarterback with some upside this season who could develop as a backup behind Mayfield and maybe grow into a starter -- maybe quickly grow into a starter.
The Eagles surprisingly drafted Jalen Hurts in the second round, with pick No. 53, in the 2020 NFL Draft as starter Carson Wentz was entering his fifth season. This happened after Wentz had started all 16 games in 2019, with the Eagles going 9-7 and reaching the playoffs. They lost their first playoff game after Wentz was knocked out with a concussion.
Eagles GM Howie Roseman informed Wentz of the possible Hurts plan the day of the draft, then emphasized after the pick that Wentz was still QB1 in Philly. The Eagles had signed him to a major extension less than a year earlier.Wentz was locked up and Mayfield is not, which really only makes the idea of the Browns drafting a quarterback in the second round more reasonable than what Philadelphia did.

Roseman is one of the mentors of Browns GM Andrew Berry, and the idea of taking another shot at a quarterback in the draft while still having a possible long-term starter on the roster should be viewed through that lens. Both Roseman and Berry acknowledge every franchise has to get the QB position right long-term to succeed, and that process is ongoing. The Browns drafting a quarterback fairly high right now would match the Wentz timeline, and these are two front offices that think along the same lines..
That’s a general thought, but the specifics of this may also work for the Browns. Keeping Mayfield but also drafting a quarterback high is the only option that merges a familiar quarterback with a big swing at upside, without paying a huge contract. Play Mayfield -- and see if you can find a superstar in the second round. And this seems like an ideal crop of quarterbacks to do that.
This draft isn’t great at the top for quarterbacks, but the upper middle is strong. There is no QB option at the No. 1 pick, but there could be three or four very viable options when the Browns pick in the second round at No. 45."
-cleveland.com
 
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WTF do I know? I just don't want to see Baker any more.
I just think the math is wrong.

"Baker sucks because he's not Tom Brady, so we should trade up for Kenny Pickett!"

I do think you underrate Mayfield. It's not an awful quarterback. He hasn't proven to be elite, but he's way better than just being a guy you release. And I feel like the options to replace him aren't great.

Like I said, I think you're frustrated and just want to get rid of him - doesn't matter who with, even if they're worse.
I think alot of fans have seen enough of Mayfield. He was hyped up but hasnt lived up to the hype. If he shits the bed again next year, not only will we be talking about a new qb, we will be talking about a new head coach as well. Many would rather get a jump on that and move on and fire them both.......
 
I think alot of fans have seen enough of Mayfield. He was hyped up but hasnt lived up to the hype. If he shits the bed again next year, not only will we be talking about a new qb, we will be talking about a new head coach as well. Many would rather get a jump on that and move on and fire them both.......
I couldn't have put it better myself. I am one of the "seen enough of Mayfield"fans. He doesn't just suck as a QB, he sucks as a leader. The guy simply has the mind of an adolescent. Case in point, the day after I posted that he looks like a fucktard fighting with tweets that say he is getting traded, he announces that he is backing off of Social media.

Why do you think he announced that? Because he is intelligent? No, it is because as I pointed out, someone in management pointed out that he was making a complete ass of himself for everyone to see. Losing credibility, looking like a child and making the franchise into a joke. WTF was this guy thinking...." Uh Uh uuuuh, I am not getting traded... I just talked to ShitMyPantski and he says i have his full confidence... so nyah nyah nyah.....Seriously, that is how fucking mentally dull this fucktard is.

Mayfield is so fucking removed from having mental of physical skills to make the Browns a winner, it is embarrassing that we are still talking about him and are going to have to deal with another year of his Spin Art style of passing.
 
how bout? baker is coming off a severe injury and may not play at his best when he returns.
and even If he does what If he takes another shot like the one watt gave him and goes back on IR 4 games in?
so we dont trade up,we take the best QB we can that falls to #13 and then the best WR left on the board at #44
we sit the kid for a year behind BM and hope we dont have to play him. better to have and not need than need and not have huh?
in short? we do what every fu*king well run organisation in the NFL does at a time like this. I dont understand why Its so controversial.
Logic and Haslam is Hatfields and McCoys.
 
I think alot of fans have seen enough of Mayfield. He was hyped up but hasnt lived up to the hype. If he shits the bed again next year, not only will we be talking about a new qb, we will be talking about a new head coach as well. Many would rather get a jump on that and move on and fire them both.......

We draft at QB #1. In three years, we churn him through three different head coaches (One is already out of the league completely, another may be out of the league next year after being demoted to a TE coach) and they all run very difference offenses. Then in year four, we play him despite the fact he suffered an injury which puts other players on IR - and we get enraged that his level of play declines.

And the most insane part is he plays well. He doesn't live up to the top five players in the league, but he objectively has played at a productive level. But we're just sick of seeing him. Release him. Replace him with either veterans who haven't played as well as he has and are available as a result, or draft from a quarterback class which realistically may have every team in the top 10 passing on them because it's widely believed to be a pretty crappy class.

But it's okay. He's a bad person because he recently stated he wants to spend less time on social media because he doesn't want to read the perfectly balanced, fair and civil death threats he and his wife are getting. I mean, he doesn't want to read about how much he sucks and should be traded. I mean, because he's childish. I agree with you guys, I'm sick of these entitled players these days spending such little time on Twitter. I want a real quarterback who spends most of his time on Twitter. It's what leaders do.

The only real answer we have is to fire the coach, release Baker, hire a new coach and draft a rookie QB who'll have that coach for at least 10 games because we do value continuity.

Make it make sense.
 
I geddit ghoulie is one extreme but man,you are the other BDU. poor baker. you both sound totally OTT.
the kids going to have his chance to prove us all wrong as will you BDU. good luck. I hope the kid does it again. Im doubtfully optimistic.
does BDU stand for bakers distraught uncle?
 
Nah. Franchise QBs don't churn through coaches, they elevate them. Franchise QBs don't churn through OL and WRs, they elevate them. etc etc. Baker is a coach killer. He has been put in an offense he prefers, he failed. He has been put in a conservative offense that limits him greatly and cuts down on his bone headed turnovers, he failed. He just fails. Case Keenum has seen more flashes of being a franchise QB than Baker Mayfield has. Flashes. Case Keenum is not a franchise QB. Baker Mayfield is a limited QB. Will make a good backup.
 
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