It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns | Page 44 | Barking Hard

It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns

Sorry player fans. It's time. Baker Mayfield is an average NFL QB, a future journeyman ...and it's time to look at our options. There are only two QBs in the NFL worse than Baker Mayfield in the 4th quarter. We routinely finish in the bottom half in almost every meaningful passing category. There is nothing at all special about him. I used to think he had an elite arm, but a lot of QBs can throw the ball hard. He can certainly throw it, but how well does he pass it really? High, hard, and behind. Rinse and repeat. A large percentage of his completions go that route as well. He has every single weakness he had coming out of college. Nothing at all has improved. In the NFL he isn't chucking up prayers to NFL caliber WRs being covered by guys who are now checking out your groceries. Baker Mayfield is the 4th best QB in the AFC North. Out of 4 teams.



Last place in the division. Most in here predicted outlandish success this season. 12 wins? 14? Maybe more. This blow-hard thought we would likely have less wins than last season, simply due to a historically easy schedule in 2020. The Browns just lost to a team with no kicker, and a fat QB who likely has lower back problems, and runs about as fast as an arthritic sloth. People are now starting to look for new excuses. The new coach is holding the team back. The WRs drop the ball too much. Mean fans are hurting Emily Mayfield's feelings and it's having an effect on Baker's play. The truth is, there's a bottleneck at the QB position. We have a Superbowl caliber roster, and a QB that is limiting what we can do with it. Baker Mayfield is the best QB we have had in twenty years ....and people are desperate to defend him. I get it.



Against the Steelers on Sunday we witnessed something we try really hard to ignore. Baker throwing high and hard the majority of the game. While throwing from the pocket, Baker not only can't see most of the field, but he throws his trademark bullets high enough to get over the defenders standing between he and his receiver. This just doesn't work, as the trajectory of these bullets leave them high and often behind his mark. A difficult ask of WRs, TEs, and RBs. You'll have player fans on twitter showing slow motion replays of a ball going through Hooper's hand, and calling anyone who dares criticize Baker a "mouth breather", but in reality Hooper was at the top of his jump, arms outstretched to the max, trying to reel in a high, hard, and behind football. Could have easily been a walk in touchdown instead... a bad pass. A QB could normally avoid this by putting some touch on the ball, a little arc, or air under it ....but Baker doesn't seem to have that gear.

hoopermiss.PNG

Mayfield throughout his entire career has made a cottage industry of rolling to his right. It seems to be the one thing he is great at. The problem is, when you are a one-trick pony, other teams game-plan to take that trick away from you. Baker has rolled right and attempted to pass a total of 6 times this year. Think about that in relation to each year prior. Teams have forced Baker into the pocket, the Steelers literally dared the Browns to pass practically the entire game. How is it working out?

WC_Browns_play_action.gif


Fourth quarter, and another chance to win a game. Most of us knew what was going to happen didn't we? We have held onto hope, praying that the light would go on, that Baker would make wholesale changes, and he would become the Browns franchise QB ...someone we could count on to put the team on his back and lead us to victory with the game on the line. What we have got in reality is a QB that is 33 of 62, with 4 TDs and 5 INTS. Sam Darnold is the only QB as bad as Mayfield with the game on the line since 2018. Mayfield's passing rating with the game on the line is 61.3 and the Browns are 3-11 in these scenarios.

Mosley.gif


Kevin Stefanski was hired to reign in Mayfield's erratic tendencies. Stefanski's offense tends to turn average QBs into statistical wonders, (Case Keenum) and perhaps limit some players at certain positions, like a downfield QB and burner WR for example. Some argue that Stefanski has taken Mayfield's gunslinger aura away from him, which while true is also the reason why Baker has become far less prone to interceptions. The dink and dunk offense with numerous screens and TE heavy route trees certainly makes a QB look good on paper at times ...but who is Baker Mayfield without the ability to roll out on play action and plant bombs down the field? Certainly these are often 50/50 bombs, but they do add to what an opposing defense has to worry about. Mayfield has 10 completions of 20 or more yards this season ...20th in the league. Recall Stefon Diggs having the same issue that OBJ is currently having in the Stefanski offense. He moved on to the Bills and is back to all-pro form. I suspect OBJ will do the same for some other team.

hi-res-fb20a37f4de5b9034aec8d34c1c44bbd_crop_north.jpg


In short, we have no vertical passing attack, while employing one of the very best WR tandems in the game, and one of the fastest WRs in the league in Schwartz. Did the Browns hire the right coach? If you believe analytics and going by the book is usually right, then yes. If you believe in coaches who base decisions on the ebb and flow of the game, their "gut" as it were, then no. We are the worst team in the league at going for it on 4th down. Analytics got us there.

We could have had Canton native and lifelong Browns fan Josh McDaniels.

giphy.gif


So where are we now? A Superbowl caliber roster, with an extremely limited QB, and a coach who can only go by the book, apparently not capable of harnessing whatever "elite" trait Mayfield may have, if he has one at all. Playoffs this season ...not likely. Our Superbowl window is open for only a short while ...without the Browns front office doing something extremely out of character (see, ballsy) like going after a Watson, Wilson, or Rogers ...I don't see us going anywhere.

BrownsWithoutOBJ_AP_Ringer.jpg


(yes another QB thread)
 
Last edited:
well,Its easy to judge while you wont post a mock yourself
for me?Its worth a shot.sit him for a year.any 2nd rd pick could bust anyway.
keenums too expensive,need a plan b.Is it a slam dunk? no.
 
now Im really confused 🤪

no ones reading my long ass football posts. I should just hurl insults and politics at people instead.much better readership.
what are we doin at QB j? you happy with baker/keenum?


We're sticking with BM Eddie. He'll have to have a good season, but we'll go from there regardless.

The other noise is BS to smoke out the other team's intentions and we get a better idea of how the first round will go. Maybe the second round a bit too. If there were a legit QB prospect worthy of 13 then maybe, but there are none because they are all guys who need to be coached up and even then may only turn out to be a backup.

The way to improve the QB position is not going to be in the draft. It would have to come in a trade for one of the QB FA's that would cost more than BM in the last year of his rookie deal. That seems unlikely too because the FA's available might only be marginally better than BM at his worst.
 
The Browns absolutely should not waste a draft pick on day 2 by drafting a shitty QB. Drafting a QB just to draft a QB is a dumb. These QB's suck and that's exactly what would be happening.
yeah,the QB's dont look good but all we need is a disciplined coachable kid who could come in and manage our powerful OFF.
we dont need a top 5 pick QB prospect to run this OFF.you know who else sucked and was projected to the 2nd rd?
mac jones. hes still not an incredible talent but hes learnt to work with the parameters of a system and went to a probowl behind it.we also dont have to p[lay the kid in his rookie year which is huge for his development. some say "dont draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB" why not? we need a cheap backup.we are loaded with picks.Its a no-brainer.

for all you guys who want that special QB.forget it! unless you're willing to tank this year just forget it.how are we suppossed to move up into the top 3 to get one of these guys? please enlighten me.what If we DO have montana,brady and manning in the top 3 next year? how do you propose we get them? no team will trade the picks forget about that.huh?crickets?

13: R1 P13 WR Drake London - USC
44: R2 P12 TE Trey McBride - Colorado State
78: R3 P14 QB Bailey Zappe - Western Kentucky
98: R3 P34 OT Max Mitchell - Louisiana
106: R4 P2 DL Travis Jones - Connecticut
117: R4 P13 LB Leo Chenal - Wisconsin
155: R5 P12 WR Khalil Shakir - Boise State

this draft assumes we loose juice,wilson and njoku.keep clowney.latest fanspeak BB out just this morning.
I'd much rather draft the 6'4' strong in the 2nd rd TBH or If ridder fell into the 2nd rd? even better.
 
Last edited:
Its fun listening to skip squirm. now were looking at cutting landry too because y'know hes not very good either
a little over a year ago we had one of the best receiving corps in football.now? bums.hmm how did this happen mr snuffaluffagus ?

 
Last edited:
Its fun listening to skip squirm. now were looking at cutting landry too because y'know hes not very good either
a little over a year ago we had one of the best receiving corps in football.now? bums.hmm how did this happen mr snuffaluffagus ?

1. I feel like we had one of the best receiving corps in all of football based more on reputation than on actual results.

Time has taken a toll on Landry. Not only is he 29, but he's got a lot of mileage on the wheels because he played six years without missing a game. Joe Thomas retired earlier than some of his counterparts for the same reason. Jarvis has definitely lost a step, and that's a big issue for a guy who did not begin his career with great athletic prowess in the first place. He's still a good player in this league, but he's not a #1 receiver and $16M per year is a lot to pay for a guy who isn't that player anymore.

The same is true for Odell. Even in his 12 games with the Rams, he had fewer than 55 receiving yards in eight of those games. He had over 80 yards twice, and both in games with 10 or more targets. He grabbed some touchdowns and had some nice moments, but he just wasn't 15/16 Odell no matter how much the narrative built him up to be. And that's looking at the absolute best of him. He didn't give his all in Cleveland and we all know it.

2. The emergence of DPJ.

He took a massive leap forward, recording 34 receptions on just 58 targets for 597 yards and 3 TDs. That's a nice second season for a developing late round pick, but what makes it all the more impressive is he had the majority of his success AFTER Baker got injured. Whether we agree or disagree on Baker struggling because of injury or just being bad, he looked good while the quarterback struggled. Notice how I mentioned Odell had 12 games with the Rams, went over 55 yards in just 4 games, and only went over 80 yards when he had 10 or more targets? From Arizona onwards, DPJ played in 9 games and went over 55 yards in 4 of them. He went over 80 yards in three games and never had more than 8 targets in a game. In five of those games, he had 5 or fewer targets.

TL;DR - Donovan was more productive after Odell left than Odell was, in a bad situation, and dealing with his own injury issues.

3. Options aplenty.

I won't go to crazy on this one, but it's universally considered an excellent WR draft. It's stacked with options. It's also a strong free agency class, assuming teams don't resign everyone, and players tend to take team-friendly contracts when a draft class is loaded because teams aren't willing to pay big dollars when a rookie is looking like a likely addition early.

4. Fresh start.

Maybe Baker is to blame. He certainly hasn't been an elite quarterback. Maybe Odell just didn't want to be in Cleveland. We already know he'd requested a trade after Baker had a fantastic season last year and nobody was calling for his head. But either way, Odell quit. We can't just not replace him like some kind of vindictive tantrum against Baker. We need a #1 receiver. I don't care if our quarterback is Baker Mayfield, Kenny Pickett or if we decide to bring Deshone Kizer back. We need to replace Odell. And Landry, as much as I love the guy, is at the point in his career where he can't command the salary he's earning. If he won't restructure, we'll need to replace him too.

5. It's the league in 2022.

Receivers are seen a resurgence in importance thanks to the pass-happy nature of the league. Teams want loaded receiver options and the concept of just letting your quarterback make someone great isn't applicable anymore. The two Superbowl teams are proof of this. They were loaded at the position. In fact, most playoff teams were too. People like to think quarterbacks just make the receiver, but all these teams are paying big money and giving up expensive draft picks to stack their receiver position while we're trying to run the ball and find linebackers we like enough to not crucify for ten minutes.
 
The Browns can trade up to draft a first-round quarterback: Doug Lesmerises Browns Mock Draft 1

dougs draft trades our '23 2nd rd pick for a move up into the 1st rd,thats far too rich for ridder IMO
I would rather we trade this years (much more attractive) 3rd and 4th rd picks for a similar move up into the 2nd rd to get him.
ridder could be as doug suggests, a franchise QB.what they did with the bearcats last year was amazing.the trades still leave us with a full draft.
my trade was accepted on difficult by the lions at fanspeak.com this is a terrible draft year.a good year to unload picks.

Trade Partner: Detroit Lions
Sent:
  • Round 2 Pick 12
  • Round 3 Pick 14
  • Round 4 Pick 2
  • Received:
  • Round 2 Pick 2
13: R1 P13 WR Drake London - USC
34: R2 P2 QB Desmond Ridder - Cincinnati
98: R3 P34 WR Romeo Doubs - Nevada
117: R4 P13 LB Brandon Smith - Penn State
155: R5 P12 TE Charlie Kolar - Iowa State
 
Last edited:
the concept of just letting your quarterback make someone great isn't applicable anymore.
ahh burrow just made a SB with no O-line.yeah both teams had great receivers AND great QB's.
People like to think quarterbacks just make the receiver,
well,the receivers dont make the QB mate,they just dont,never have,never will.some of the best players in history to never win a SB were WR's.why? they just didnt have that elusive franchise QB.

the rest of your post is hard to disagree with but juice's decline is inextricably linked to bakers decline. hes also been hurt so Its hard to really say how much juice juice has left in the tank.OBJ WTF cares anymore.hes gone.its over.move on for gawds sake.
 
ahh burrow just made a SB with no O-line.yeah both teams had great receivers AND great QB's.

well,the receivers dont make the QB mate,they just dont,never have,never will.some of the best players in history to never win a SB were WR's.why? they just didnt have that elusive franchise QB.

the rest of your post is hard to disagree with but juice's decline is inextricably linked to bakers decline. hes also been hurt so Its hard to really say how much juice juice has left in the tank.OBJ WTF cares anymore.hes gone.its over.move on for gawds sake.

Nobody is saying receivers make quarterbacks. But the impact they have on the offense is undeniable.
 
Great QBs make great WRs out of otherwise average WRs..

Great WRs do not make average QBs better than average.

A great #1 WR is totally wasted on a QB like Mayfield who can only see 1/3 of the field.

DPJ isn't half the WR OBJ is. Doesn't have the speed, acceleration, hands, etc. Your stats are meaningless. And I can't stand OBJ.

Also believe Landry played entire season injured. Healthy he is still one hell of a wr. But let's look for any and every excuse for the kid who lives in Austin on the lake. The last two seasons we had one of the top rosters in the NFL on offense. A cockpit every NFL QB would dream of having. But Baker still needs this and he still needs that. Absolute rubbish.
 
Last edited:
we dont have a choice.most of those guys were drafted as backups (all?) except maybe lock.
TBH it is an eye opening tweet though.what is the alternative? we keep keenum? we draft at #13?
moving up to grab a clear #1 is a great idea.just not this year LOL. so unless we bet the farm on willis? were fu&ked then?
If we were to burn picks and do something crazy this would be the year to do it.If we get a QB and 2 good WR? great draft.
this is clearly the worst draft of talent in recent memory.I think willis will go top 5 anyway.teams will try and move up to get him.mac jones was just drafted at 15 so..It is possible. Its baker or bust? that doesnt fill me with confidence TBH.
 
Last edited:
this is clearly the worst draft of talent in recent memory.
I dont mean QB's.I mean the entire board, except the WR's which are deep every year.
ridder had great numbers @70% completion rate and got the "who?" bearcats to the final 4.pretty impressive.
but like brad said in moneyball. "you dont know,you dont" Its an informed gamble.to burn a 2nd 3rd and 4th this year? with all our picks? I think its a great idea.we still get our #1 rookie WR which is the most important thing and we dont start ridder of course.what do we really have to lose? a few picks? so what? matty ice? at 36? I dont hate it.
 
Top Bottom