It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns | Page 45 | Barking Hard

It's time to turn the page and begin the hunt for a new QB. #Browns

Sorry player fans. It's time. Baker Mayfield is an average NFL QB, a future journeyman ...and it's time to look at our options. There are only two QBs in the NFL worse than Baker Mayfield in the 4th quarter. We routinely finish in the bottom half in almost every meaningful passing category. There is nothing at all special about him. I used to think he had an elite arm, but a lot of QBs can throw the ball hard. He can certainly throw it, but how well does he pass it really? High, hard, and behind. Rinse and repeat. A large percentage of his completions go that route as well. He has every single weakness he had coming out of college. Nothing at all has improved. In the NFL he isn't chucking up prayers to NFL caliber WRs being covered by guys who are now checking out your groceries. Baker Mayfield is the 4th best QB in the AFC North. Out of 4 teams.



Last place in the division. Most in here predicted outlandish success this season. 12 wins? 14? Maybe more. This blow-hard thought we would likely have less wins than last season, simply due to a historically easy schedule in 2020. The Browns just lost to a team with no kicker, and a fat QB who likely has lower back problems, and runs about as fast as an arthritic sloth. People are now starting to look for new excuses. The new coach is holding the team back. The WRs drop the ball too much. Mean fans are hurting Emily Mayfield's feelings and it's having an effect on Baker's play. The truth is, there's a bottleneck at the QB position. We have a Superbowl caliber roster, and a QB that is limiting what we can do with it. Baker Mayfield is the best QB we have had in twenty years ....and people are desperate to defend him. I get it.



Against the Steelers on Sunday we witnessed something we try really hard to ignore. Baker throwing high and hard the majority of the game. While throwing from the pocket, Baker not only can't see most of the field, but he throws his trademark bullets high enough to get over the defenders standing between he and his receiver. This just doesn't work, as the trajectory of these bullets leave them high and often behind his mark. A difficult ask of WRs, TEs, and RBs. You'll have player fans on twitter showing slow motion replays of a ball going through Hooper's hand, and calling anyone who dares criticize Baker a "mouth breather", but in reality Hooper was at the top of his jump, arms outstretched to the max, trying to reel in a high, hard, and behind football. Could have easily been a walk in touchdown instead... a bad pass. A QB could normally avoid this by putting some touch on the ball, a little arc, or air under it ....but Baker doesn't seem to have that gear.

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Mayfield throughout his entire career has made a cottage industry of rolling to his right. It seems to be the one thing he is great at. The problem is, when you are a one-trick pony, other teams game-plan to take that trick away from you. Baker has rolled right and attempted to pass a total of 6 times this year. Think about that in relation to each year prior. Teams have forced Baker into the pocket, the Steelers literally dared the Browns to pass practically the entire game. How is it working out?

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Fourth quarter, and another chance to win a game. Most of us knew what was going to happen didn't we? We have held onto hope, praying that the light would go on, that Baker would make wholesale changes, and he would become the Browns franchise QB ...someone we could count on to put the team on his back and lead us to victory with the game on the line. What we have got in reality is a QB that is 33 of 62, with 4 TDs and 5 INTS. Sam Darnold is the only QB as bad as Mayfield with the game on the line since 2018. Mayfield's passing rating with the game on the line is 61.3 and the Browns are 3-11 in these scenarios.

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Kevin Stefanski was hired to reign in Mayfield's erratic tendencies. Stefanski's offense tends to turn average QBs into statistical wonders, (Case Keenum) and perhaps limit some players at certain positions, like a downfield QB and burner WR for example. Some argue that Stefanski has taken Mayfield's gunslinger aura away from him, which while true is also the reason why Baker has become far less prone to interceptions. The dink and dunk offense with numerous screens and TE heavy route trees certainly makes a QB look good on paper at times ...but who is Baker Mayfield without the ability to roll out on play action and plant bombs down the field? Certainly these are often 50/50 bombs, but they do add to what an opposing defense has to worry about. Mayfield has 10 completions of 20 or more yards this season ...20th in the league. Recall Stefon Diggs having the same issue that OBJ is currently having in the Stefanski offense. He moved on to the Bills and is back to all-pro form. I suspect OBJ will do the same for some other team.

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In short, we have no vertical passing attack, while employing one of the very best WR tandems in the game, and one of the fastest WRs in the league in Schwartz. Did the Browns hire the right coach? If you believe analytics and going by the book is usually right, then yes. If you believe in coaches who base decisions on the ebb and flow of the game, their "gut" as it were, then no. We are the worst team in the league at going for it on 4th down. Analytics got us there.

We could have had Canton native and lifelong Browns fan Josh McDaniels.

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So where are we now? A Superbowl caliber roster, with an extremely limited QB, and a coach who can only go by the book, apparently not capable of harnessing whatever "elite" trait Mayfield may have, if he has one at all. Playoffs this season ...not likely. Our Superbowl window is open for only a short while ...without the Browns front office doing something extremely out of character (see, ballsy) like going after a Watson, Wilson, or Rogers ...I don't see us going anywhere.

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(yes another QB thread)
 
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Great QBs make great WRs out of otherwise average WRs..

Great WRs do not make average QBs better than average.

A great #1 WR is totally wasted on a QB like Mayfield who can only see 1/3 of the field.

DPJ isn't half the WR OBJ is. Doesn't have the speed, acceleration, hands, etc. Your stats are meaningless. And I can't stand OBJ.

Also believe Landry played entire season injured. Healthy he is still one hell of a wr. But let's look for any and every excuse for the kid who lives in Austin on the lake. The last two seasons we had one of the top rosters in the NFL on offense. A cockpit every NFL QB would dream of having. But Baker still needs this and he still needs that. Absolute rubbish.
While I agree with some of this, I don't believe OBJ is a #1 anymore and he was definitely not the #1 WR with the Rams. OBJ's play was lackadaisical while he was here and healthy. Last year like you said Jarvis played hurt. At the beginning of the year everyone thought we had one of the best one two WR punches in the league. That went to shit quickly by no fault of BM. I am not ready to say it went to shit because of BM and dismiss OBJ and Jarvis' part in it and put it on BM.
 


Here's another video for the QB crowd which does a good job highlighting what Ridder can do. I'm certainly not sold on him, or anyone in this class, but the video comes from the same perspective I have - Desmond Ridder is QB1.

The video also uses Mayfield as an example a few times. Ridder has strong pocket presence and he's very technically refined - which, yeah, just isn't Mayfield right now.
 
If this organisation sells the farm for Jimmy G or Carson Wentz, I'm out.

They're objectively not the answer, and not even clear-cut upgrades from Mayfield. If we're dumb enough to go throwing picks around to land inferior quarterbacks from teams desperately trying to move on from their mistakes, then that's my tipping point.

Only the Cleveland Browns would try to build around Carson fucking Wentz in 2022.
 


Here's another video for the QB crowd which does a good job highlighting what Ridder can do. I'm certainly not sold on him, or anyone in this class, but the video comes from the same perspective I have - Desmond Ridder is QB1.

The video also uses Mayfield as an example a few times. Ridder has strong pocket presence and he's very technically refined - which, yeah, just isn't Mayfield right now.

A couple of things. At 1300 of the video Ridder is in shotgun formation and according to this kid everyone on the right is covered and the WR that is open on the left running a slant/dig route. The WR is open and Ridder would be expected to make that play in the NFL contrary to the kid's opinion that throwing to that WR is a horrible decision. To Ridder's benefit he makes a play into dbl coverage so that's good.

At 0323 of that video, he makes a throw that in the NFL an average CB would have picked. The CB is on the left hash at the 27-yard line and by God he's in position to cut that ball.

Overall Ridder looks good. Not without flaws and I'm not watching full game tape. I trust Dane Brugler and Dan Jeremiah for the crazy in depth, scouting reports and I can verify some of those things myself.

We never see these college QB's under center either. I'm guessing whoever drafts any of these QB's will come with training wheels that coaches will have to work to remove. Calling it a three, step drop when he's in shotgun formation is funny to me. I'd like to see any videos of these kids come under center and perform a five, step drop, or four and a hitch, stand tall in the pocket and throw from the pocket. Preferably under pressure too. That is what will happen in the NFL. Like Lamar Jackson defenses have forced him to stay in the pocket and make throws. His poor performance last year reflects him having to read a defense make a decision and throw accurately. It's not his strong suit. It's also why some NFL QB's who have mastered making throws from the pocket can play a very long time.

Coach Sam said it years ago. Running QB's don't last long in the league and Jackson missed several games last year due to injury.
 
Overall Ridder looks good.

I feel like this just says it all. He looks good. That's this QB class for me. There is nobody I would pound the table for, and I'd be stunned if any GM decides to grab one of these guys super early and really tie a career in with the prospect. They look good. Not good enough for the teams in the top 5 to grab. That's not expected at all. But they do look good and could be smart additions.

If anything, I like that Ridder is more balanced. I feel he'll fit well within the flow of the offense. And while every part of me is screaming "NO" because I don't like the film, I must admit I love the skill set of Malik Willis and I love the idea of being on the cutting edge of the NFL. Mobile quarterbacks are running the league these days, and he's as mobile as they come. Maybe we can develop him behind Mayfield for a year and use him occasionally in special packages.

But I'm a long way from confident in any of these prospects.

I feel that's the reason the Giants are talking about how they believe in Daniel Jones, or the Dolphins are talking about how Tua is in their plans. The Lions have thrown their support behind Goff. The Browns anticipate Baker being the starter in 2022. The Vikings new brass just said they're excited to have Kirk Cousins and are looking forward to building around him. The Broncos are dropping hints they feel they can get the best out of Drew Lock. The Steelers LOVE what they're seeing from Haskins and Rudolph.

Do all of these teams believe in their quarterback/s? No. But I do think we're seeing teams trying to let the fan base know in advance not to hold high hopes for a new starting QB this season because the draft isn't great - especially as immediate starters.

If we're done with Mayfield, go get Rodgers. Or Wilson. Or Watson. If Watson settles his sexual assault cases as expected, is anyone going to offer Houston more than two first round picks and a former #1 overall QB, who is a fiery Texan, is pissed off to no end and will undoubtedly be desperate to silence everyone?

I can live with the price of getting a clear upgrade - even if it is steep. But I can't say the same about overdrafting a rookie QB or making a costly trade for fucking Wentz, a 37 year-old Matt Ryan or any of the other realistic names flying around.
 
A couple of things. At 1300 of the video Ridder is in shotgun formation and according to this kid everyone on the right is covered and the WR that is open on the left running a slant/dig route. The WR is open and Ridder would be expected to make that play in the NFL contrary to the kid's opinion that throwing to that WR is a horrible decision. To Ridder's benefit he makes a play into dbl coverage so that's good.

At 0323 of that video, he makes a throw that in the NFL an average CB would have picked. The CB is on the left hash at the 27-yard line and by God he's in position to cut that ball.

Overall Ridder looks good. Not without flaws and I'm not watching full game tape. I trust Dane Brugler and Dan Jeremiah for the crazy in depth, scouting reports and I can verify some of those things myself.

We never see these college QB's under center either. I'm guessing whoever drafts any of these QB's will come with training wheels that coaches will have to work to remove. Calling it a three, step drop when he's in shotgun formation is funny to me. I'd like to see any videos of these kids come under center and perform a five, step drop, or four and a hitch, stand tall in the pocket and throw from the pocket. Preferably under pressure too. That is what will happen in the NFL. Like Lamar Jackson defenses have forced him to stay in the pocket and make throws. His poor performance last year reflects him having to read a defense make a decision and throw accurately. It's not his strong suit. It's also why some NFL QB's who have mastered making throws from the pocket can play a very long time.

Coach Sam said it years ago. Running QB's don't last long in the league and Jackson missed several games last year due to injury.

Drafting any of these QB's puts you right back where a lot of you think we are right now...looking for the QB of the future. Ridder is not a high level talent who should be chosen in the first 2 days of the NFL draft. Just like every other QB in this year's draft class. Any of them in the Top 3 rounds..and anything other than developmental, late round picks...is a giant waste of our time and assets. None of them look 'good' as it relates to replacing our current QB.

There is not a single QB in this draft taking with the idea of replacing Baker. You aren't upgrading or getting a potential upgrade at any round in this draft with any of the QB's. You're simply wasting our time and assets.

Unless we have the opportunity for an elite veteran like the Rams did in Stafford...and we don't...then there is no reason to move on from Baker this off-season. Elite guys like Rodgers, Wilson and Watson will not be available to the Browns at a price we would be willing to pay; nor will any of them 'want' to come to Cleveland. QB's who could have potentially been an upgrade (e.g. Carr) are no longer available. We are in a position in which the best route to take is to get legitimate, explosive weapons on the outside and see what a healthy Baker can do in 2022.

But if you think drafting shitty QB's like Ridder, Willis, etc... are going to get the Browns anywhere, you haven't paid attention to the last 20 years.
 
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I agree. We'll be rolling with BM for another year and have this discussion at the end of next season. We're not done with him just yet. The FO said as much and picking up a QB in the second round this year would mean leaving a quality talent at a position of need unfilled. Either on the Dline or WR. If one of those QB's falls to the third round that would be fine by me to take a flyer on a young developmental guy.

But these GM's are floating all their pre-draft BS too. Of course, they love their QB's, WR's, TE's, DLinemen, and every last guy on their roster down to the last guy on the Practice Squad. Which means there is always a tiny possibility they pull off something we do not see at this point in time. I doubt it, but it could happen.

I like the idea of getting a WR and a DLineman/DE in the first two rounds and package up those extra third round picks to get back into the second round again for another WR or DLineman/DE. After that it's anyone's guess. A TE somewhere would be a nice addition and we need a Kicker and a Punter. This FO has some homework to take care of, but nothing too difficult.

And I was by no means advocating to take a QB. Just browsing what's out there and it's kind of meh. 😐
 
how bout? baker is coming off a severe injury and may not play at his best when he returns.
and even If he does what If he takes another shot like the one watt gave him and goes back on IR 4 games in?
so we dont trade up,we take the best QB we can that falls to #13 and then the best WR left on the board at #44
we sit the kid for a year behind BM and hope we dont have to play him. better to have and not need than need and not have huh?
in short? we do what every fu*king well run organisation in the NFL does at a time like this. I dont understand why Its so controversial.
The problem with this argument is Mayfield sucked before his injuries!
 
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I agree. We'll be rolling with BM for another year and have this discussion at the end of next season. We're not done with him just yet. The FO said as much and picking up a QB in the second round this year would mean leaving a quality talent at a position of need unfilled. Either on the Dline or WR. If one of those QB's falls to the third round that would be fine by me to take a flyer on a young developmental guy.

But these GM's are floating all their pre-draft BS too. Of course, they love their QB's, WR's, TE's, DLinemen, and every last guy on their roster down to the last guy on the Practice Squad. Which means there is always a tiny possibility they pull off something we do not see at this point in time. I doubt it, but it could happen.

I like the idea of getting a WR and a DLineman/DE in the first two rounds and package up those extra third round picks to get back into the second round again for another WR or DLineman/DE. After that it's anyone's guess. A TE somewhere would be a nice addition and we need a Kicker and a Punter. This FO has some homework to take care of, but nothing too difficult.

And I was by no means advocating to take a QB. Just browsing what's out there and it's kind of meh. 😐


If there was a guy out there... or is a guy out there... You can bet someones got their eyes peeled open.. or at least hope so...
 
Carson Wentz is miles better than Baker, and he is on a journey back to great. At least there is a chance he is. Had a pretty good season last year. Nobody would sell the farm for him, but I certainly would do what it takes to sign him if he is cut.

Also, hard to sign good WRs when the rub around the league is that Baker is a liability.

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It doesn't sound like Wentz is all that particularly if a team needs a leader at the QB position. Just play out the string with BM unless we fall into a significantly better QB. Wentz is marginally better right now.


Carson Wentz, Colts: The Colts would like to move on after Wentz had a subpar season and the Colts missed the playoffs in embarrassing fashion. But the Colts’ investment in Wentz could be a roadblock. No team is going to trade for his contract, which has a $22 million base salary ($15 million fully guaranteed), plus a $5 million roster bonus due in mid-March, plus another $1.3 million bonus due in Week 18 (for a total of $28.3 million).

The Colts could pay the $5 million roster bonus, and pay some of the $15 million guaranteed salary, to facilitate a trade. But they also just gave up first- and third-round picks for Wentz. It may make more sense to just pay Wentz for one more year and move on in 2023. [Boston Globe]

 
Baker couldn't sniff those stats. Wentz wasn't just good, he was great the majority of the season. At the end he shit the bed, but many other factors involved.

Without Higgins and Chase? That has to be one of the dumbest statements I have ever read. lol wow. Burrows throws dimes downfield with ease with one of the worst OLs in the league. In year 2. Baker wouldn't even see them let alone pass it to them.
 
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